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Check this out, http://www.pir.sa.gov.au/fisheries/recreational_fishing/artificial_reefs/do_artificial_reefs_workAnd then ask, why then have other states spent many $ millions on artificial reefs and FADS in their respective states over the past ten years. Go check out the other states fishery Web-sites.Answer.... outdated fisheries science by a body that refuses to accept paradigms' that do not fit with their own culture. Worse,refusal to spend any real money advancing tangible and useful angling programs. Forget all the coming recreational plans, they won't go anywhere. Just good sounding rhetoric, wait and see !

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This is hilarious. :laugh:Everyone knows that more FAD,s and artificial reefs attract more fish,that in turn attract more New Zealand Fur Seals,that eat more Fairy Penguins.

Do you believe that, that is their only job?From their own words: (1) An object of this Act is to protect, manage, use and develop the aquatic resources ofthe State in a manner that is consistent with

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Ok, Il take your bait: Id like to see the science behind your logic, cos even tho that science is 20 years old, doesnt make it redundant in my books. Plenty of science is "old" yet still applicable to this day.Would I be right in assuming that alot of the artificals and FADs in other states are funded by licence revenue? Revenue that is controlled by organizations that are run by recs and in self interest will do anything that they believe will be of help to their cause? PIRSA are a government body, looking after the intrest of more parties than just us recs.If your logic was full proof, I should be able to rock up to any wreck or tyre reef in the gulf ( considering we have more than in an other state) and be in with a good chance of getting a feed, its simply not the case.why is it that everybody wants there own "drop"? Is it cos the fish dont have enough structure to adhere to , or is it cos all the common ones have so many recs thrash them that there is no fish anyway?chicken/egg scenario to me!!

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why then have other states spent many $ millions on artificial reefs and FADS in their respective states over the past ten years. Go check out the other states fishery Web-sites.

because other states have very different marine environments and fish stocks to SA perhaps?as far as I can see, our gulfs are fairly unique.The science seems fairly legit to me, especially for snapper. having more reefs is not going to increase numbers, just aggregate fish in know locations which will then increase fishing pressure.The snapper have a yearly run from way out in the open ocean somewhere, up the gulfs, they spawn, then bugger off back out into the deep blue yonder. they are migratory... so how are more reefs going to help anything? its not going to help them get jiggy with it... they do that up in the warm gulf waters. that's the reason why there are snapper bans each year and they are bringing in the spatial closures in their breeding areas... so they are left alone to get down and dirty.That is going to do a lot more for recs than putting in reefs, more breeding, more fish, the easier it will be for you to catch one at any of the many reefs and structures already in place.I think their science is pretty damn good.also, FADs attract pelagics... how many pelagic species do we see in SA where the majority of people fish (the gulfs)? trevors... slimey macks... The page you linked to will tell you that this state has installed many artificial reefs in the 1970s, if that didn't increase fish stocks significantly then how will putting more in help? the only thing it will do is give more people a 'fishing spot' when there are already more than enough.
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You believe PIRSA is looking after anglers ???????

Do you believe that, that is their only job?From their own words: (1) An object of this Act is to protect, manage, use and develop the aquatic resources ofthe State in a manner that is consistent with ecologically sustainable development and,to that end, the following principles apply:(a) proper conservation and management measures are to be implemented toprotect the aquatic resources of the State from over-exploitation and ensurethat those resources are not endangered;(B) access to the aquatic resources of the State is to be allocated between users ofthe resources in a manner that achieves optimum utilisation and equitabledistribution of those resources to the benefit of the community;© aquatic habitats are to be protected and conserved, and aquatic ecosystemsand genetic diversity are to be maintained and enhanced;(d) recreational fishing and commercial fishing activities are to be fostered forthe benefit of the whole community;(e) the participation of users of the aquatic resources of the State, and of thecommunity more generally, in the management of fisheries is to beencouraged.(2) The principle set out in subsection (1)(a) has priority over the other principles.(3) A further object of this Act is that the aquatic resources of the State are to be managedin an efficient and cost effective manner and targets set for the recovery ofmanagement costs.
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You believe PIRSA is looking after anglers ???????

do you believe that anglers are in no way responsible for our declined fish stocks?I still think for every 1 angler that gets caught doing the wrong thing in regards to bag and size limits, 100 dont get caught and continue to do so for years.
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Hi Ale..... bugger you are onto me.Firstly......the million dollar reefs built in Queensland are from Government funds. They don't have a licence.Most of you do not have the biological science background that I have, and it would take a page or two to explain, so I will provide an example to ponder. And yes I know I am arrogant.Lets for the sake of this argument,that over-night in SA waters all of the under water habitat such as artificial and natural reefs were removed, lumps, bumps and other things. What would happen to fish populations ?So by adding habitat, the reverse applies. Go read Darwin.

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Most of you do not have the biological science background that I have' date=' and it would take a page or two to explain, so I will provide an example to ponder. And yes I know I am arrogant.Lets for the sake of this argument,that over-night in SA waters all of the under water habitat such as artificial and natural reefs were removed, lumps, bumps and other things. What would happen to fish populations ?So by adding habitat, the reverse applies. Go read Darwin.[/quote']Actually, I've got a biological science background (applied science - animal technology) and I'm not afraid of reading, so I'd actually welcome the chance to read your explanation fully, to provide you the benefit of any doubt and to hear your arguement for them in it's entirety.Through my own studies I've also had Darwin's theory drummed into me, to the point that I now consider myself something of a Darwinian.....oh, the pain!I've also been reading about the recreational benefits of FAD's interstate for many a year now, I've heard many of the arguements both for and against them, in fact we've even had someone here on this forum questioning anglers to obtain input for a research project into FAD design.I do believe that by comparison to other states, our SA fisheries are very well managed, and I do also believe SARDI to provide the scientific support and background data.......I'm very reluctant to believe SARDI are lacking or outdated, or that the science itself is flawed, as I've always believed them to provide up to date and valid research, amongst the best in our country.However, as stated, I'm interested to hear opinions/suggestions/viewpoints for improvement, and as you have chosen to post in our "PIRSA forum", it will also be read and replied by PIRSA representatives themselves, should you have any direct questions for them in regards to FAD's....again, I for one would be quite interested to read those questions, and the replies.
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The only reason people try and break the rules is when they know they can get away with it, so it's definitely a compliance problem bought about by a lack of enforcement.It all comes down to how much the respective states Gumberments value recreational fishing. The fact that QLD does without the need for an RFL speaks volumes and i mention that in an old thread on the issue.WA is also in the process of A) deploying a number of concrete structures and B) still to be released-the most comprehensive study/survey of it's kind in WA looking into recreational angling.WAs licensing system is way more convoluted than it needs to be. "What fostering of angling can you point to in recent times ?"None really now you mention it.From WA fisheries"Artificial reef expertise in AsiaCountries such as China, Japan and Korea have been constructing and installing artificial reefs for more than 100 years.In north Asia, artificial reefs have been proven, in some cases, to be successful in increasing fish stocks up to 12 times the abundance expected on a natural reef.Building on this success, countries such as Korea have invested millions of dollars in large-scale artificial reef projects to enhance fish production and increase commercial catch volumes.Our Director General, Stuart Smith, lead a delegation to South Korea and China in 2011 to learn from these countries’ expertise and experience in developing artificial reefs.We subsequently signed a memorandum of understanding with both the Korea Fisheries Resource Agency and the People’s Republic of China to share information on developing artificial reefs and sustainable fisheries management. ​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​"

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For every new artificial reef that is laid or placed on the bottom you create food.I look at our snapper fishery and immediately think, to maintain large populations of predatory fish such as snapper you are going to need a lot of food. 20 years ago there was more scollaps, mussell beds and more sea grass beds to support food items.I think we are now at the point in this gulf that Snapper are having to eat practically any food item they find. Ie i have caught snapper that have barely had anything in their stomachs. Those snapper anglers that do use the artificial reefs successfully are normally anglers that have done some homework and know how to fish them, ie peek times and tides and using baits that are productive.I dont think having extra artificial reefs is going to give these people much more of a chance of catching these fish because as you would all be aware, snapper are mobile and you need to keep up to date with where the schools are as they move up and down the gulf to know which artificial reef is firing in a given month. The average mum and dad fisho, dont have access to that and dont put in enough time and effort.My view has and always will be, the more structure the more food - ie macks, prawns, crabs, mussells etc. Our gulf is primarily barren so the gulf needs as much help as it can.The more FAD's that are available just means the big schools have more spots to stop and get a feed. Its actually not that common for anglers to hit the common FADS/TYRE REEFS during daylight hours and bag out. Ocassionally it does happen but more often than not its by snapper anglers that have put many hours in fishing that one FAD.

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I have read more info than I care to remember on AR's and FAD's.While they do aggregate fish they also have increased biodiversity levels in some circumstances.I will see if I can find an article I read where an AR was implemented to replace lost fishing opportunities for local fishers post the adjacent natural reef system being closed. This AR has outstripped the adjacent natural reef closed to fishing go figure....At the end of the day all these initiatives MPA's, AR's, FAD's etc can be effective ways of improving rec fishing experiences through environmental benefit.However, the benefit potential relies on many factors including placement, size, design, fisheries management regime, anthropogenic influences outside of fishing and natural fluctuations in biomass/biodiversity.I think we as a state should be investing and conducting in all these intiatives but as always in moderation. Just for reference sake...many AR systems are grid like formations in which management regimes often include rotating closed areas for increased biomass regeneration in areas of high fishing pressure.In my opinion AR's shouldn't be dismissed completely but shouldn't be used extensively either as they do have the capacity to disrupt the natural environmental balance through habitat change that is the preference of invasive species or specific natives to the detriment of other natives etc.PS. Either side of this debate can feel free to tear me to shreds if you don't agree :whistle:

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Hi Ale..... bugger you are onto me.Firstly......the million dollar reefs built in Queensland are from Government funds. They don't have a licence.Most of you do not have the biological science background that I have' date=' and it would take a page or two to explain, so I will provide an example to ponder. And yes I know I am arrogant.Lets for the sake of this argument,that over-night in SA waters all of the under water habitat such as artificial and natural reefs were removed, lumps, bumps and other things. What would happen to fish populations ?So by adding habitat, the reverse applies. Go read Darwin.[/quote']You come across very condcending mate, like no one else is smart enough to understand science or your theories. Feel free to tell us what qualifications you have.I consider myself educated and aware, so please, before writting 4 line statements to bait people on internet forums, spend the time to explain yourself better and maybe you can convert a few non believers, who knows, you may even teach PISRA something instead of coming across like an internet know it all like others on here.Darwin? Im versed mate, even spent 1 week on the Galapogas seeing it all aboard a live aboard boat, and guess what? No recreational fishing was allowed there, Only a small amount of locals with governmnet permits where allowed to fish there, Commercially even!!
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Thanks just me..... the exercise in stimulation is working.Many/ most do not know where to access relevant data.I know the Korean scientist and was involved when he came to Australia about four years ago.Too many ostrich's in this state for mine !; and many miss the point on fostering angling in SA, they try to look tooooooooo deeply at things.Keep it simple and get on your bikes ! Rattle the chains and become a force or get run over !

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At the end of the day do PIRSA or our state government have the cash for such initiatives anyway?Nup... :( MPA's to be policed/managed properly will likely see this situation remain for a long time yet.

Exactly, these bozos have bankrupted this State, they are cutting back on everything including essential services.If only we had the Adelaide Oval Lobby Group on the team ;)
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Many/ most do not know where to access relevant data.Too many ostrich's in this state for mine !; and many miss the point on fostering angling in SA' date=' they try to look tooooooooo deeply at things.Keep it simple and get on your bikes ! Rattle the chains and become a force or get run over ![/quote']Well, I was expecting much more than just "an exercise in stimulation" as a reply. :blink:Maybe I'm trying to look "too deeply at things" in hoping for relevant supporting data, constructed arguement, scientific principles and methodology, by way of constructive reply and justification for your stance on FAD's in SA! :unsure:All I find now, is that I'm scratching my head wondering why someone who claims to be from Yepoon QLD is so interested in the politics behind SA fisheries?
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Many/ most do not know where to access relevant data.Too many ostrich's in this state for mine !; and many miss the point on fostering angling in SA' date=' they try to look tooooooooo deeply at things.Keep it simple and get on your bikes ! Rattle the chains and become a force or get run over ![/quote']Well' date=' I was expecting much more than just "an exercise in stimulation" as a reply. :blink:Maybe I'm trying to look "too deeply at things" in hoping for relevant supporting data, constructed arguement, scientific principles and methodology, by way of constructive reply and justification for your stance on FAD's in SA! :unsure:All I find now, is that I'm scratching my head wondering why someone who claims to be from Yepoon QLD is so interested in the politics behind SA fisheries?[/quote']Agree. I've been anxiously waiting to hear some words of "wisdom" in the hope I may learn a bit more about biological sciences..... Seems there's a lot of talk and plenty of chest beating, but nothing much of substance.... :dry:
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Hi RangerYou know what happens when one scratches their head' date='..... may get splinters !When I do that, like now, its to relieve an irritation of the injustice dished out to anglers in SA for so many years.[/quote']I have no doubt that you mixed with Pollies Wisdom, you can avoid answering questions as well as any of 'em...Point of order Mr Speaker, the member for Yeepoon...
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I think anything that increases the amount of food in the gulfs would be far more beneficial to fish stocks than a couple of old tyres tied together. Lets get more crabs and prawns in the gulf, maybe limit pilchard/sardine fishing and try to restore some of the seagrass meadows that we have lost off metro Adelaide. If we take for example the two most arguably popular catches off of metro Adelaide are KGW and Snapper. My reading suggests their stomach contents has very little resident reef species but lots of crabs, molluscs, prawns, invertebrates. I suppose if you could put in a lot of reef systems the fish may change their eating behaviour but it would have to be a lot of reef.More structure down South in deeper water for Kingies, Samsons, Nannygai might be a goer though. That DDG off Rapid Bay I have heard has some big schools of these on it at times.

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My limited understanding is when the first AR's were deployed it led to the decimation of snapper stocks on local grounds and all the natural habits were devoid of fish because they aggregated on the AR's and were easy targets to novice and pro alikeThis doesn't mean i'm against the deployment because they probably do increase biodiversity on some level but for a more succesful outcome there would either have to be a "lot" of them to spread out the fishing pressure or they would have to be placed in secret or distant locations to stop what has occurred in the past. cheers brenton

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TacklebagsDon't bother...... they were dragged to Melbourne three years ago to take part in a presentation by the person that brought out the Korean scientist in the company of the Victorian Fisheries.And were even invited before that to receive a delegation from other states on the issue. The answer was ...."get lost".That was three years ago, whats happened since ?Does that answer your question ?Remember that Fishery managers are beholden to their Directors/ CEO's and their Ministers so only ever expect a politically safe answer (so they keep their jobs). Even if they believe otherwise !

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there would either have to be a "lot" of them to spread out the fishing pressure or they would have to be placed in secret or distant locations to stop what has occurred in the past. cheers brenton

There are a lot of them placed in secret locations.Just not by PIRSA or the government. :whistle:
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