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so you want a rec fishing license?


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This was presented to the Committee more than 6 months ago (July 2016), and hasn't been mentioned since (to my knowledge). It was not a formal submission by the MFA, although one presenter was/is a Bo

I love the RFL - Riverland Football League   Cant wait 

The rec fishing licence is being pushed by the pro fishers to parliament.. Anyone think they are doing it for our good?

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One of the major problems we face here in SA is that the government has created a "peak body" to "look after the interests" of rec fishers and they refuse to deal with anyone else. I am not against a licence in principle but it cannot be a first step, there are a lot of other issues to deal with first.

 

The Govt has to face the voters. At that time, all bets are off...

 

 

A change of government only means a change of minister, all the infrastructure remains, PIRSA, RecFishSA etc.

 

 

Very true Barney. Govt departments will remain in place after every election, and that's a good thing for continuity and stability. I think it would be total chaos if the whole State abruptly changed direction when a different political party is (or could be) elected every 4 years. 

 

What can make a difference though, is when the electorate (or part of the electorate such as rec fishers) gets their act together and seek and receive a commitment from (hopefully) all political parties that they will implement change If they are elected. Subsequent to the election, Govt departments (PIRSA, SARDI, DEWNR etc) have the responsibility of enacting the policies set by their relevant Ministers and in accordance with legislation. Assuming that promises are kept, this how the system can be changed and how the role of Govt departments can be changed via the ballot box.

 

I believe that the key to it is to ensure that recorded commitments are made by candidates prior to the election.

 

The key to that is to ask - and there's no point in asking after the election.

 

There are many very capable rec fishers in SA (in ALL organisations) who understand how to get the best out of the political system, and they know more than I do on the subject. The real magic trick would be to pull these currently disillusioned people together so that their voluntary skills can all be combined for one purpose. The purpose of gaining a permanent level of funding that would enable professional representation and management of the rec sector in SA.

 

Have faith, these people really do exist in SA, and they do understand how to create a truly open, accountable and democratic representative committee to manage the funding once achieved, or to work on what a RFL in SA should look like. Whether they would want to take on all the stress and hard work it will involve is another question entirely, and there are a lot of bridges needed to be built within the rec community - and that would need to be done yesterday.

 

As always, look to receive any feedback good or bad. <Bad is more important>

 

Cheers,

 

ps. Thanks Bjorn,

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A census style program needs to be run so you can provide "in principle" majority support for a rfl prior to the election. The only access fishos have to the funding required to facilitate this is via the current grants process.

 

The $5,000,000 RJ touted divided by the estimated 277,000 fishers =$18.00 pp. Minus say half of the population under 18 or retired then you would need $36.00 pp to reach that revenue.

 

Big hurdles to work out:

 

1.gov costs to facilitate against revenue?

 

2. Do we assist peak bodies financially?

 

My opinion, support no peak body financially or support all three existing incorporated groups equally at a capped rate % of the revenue.

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Just a though? What about tourists (terrorist's) from other states that are not aware you need a licence ?

Or the family of 4, say teenagers and mum and dad, that save money to hire a holiday house and this a once a year trip ? do they have to fork out money ?  IMO we the people own the waters / share and as a sport why would we have to pay more monies when we do not know where it is going.

 

Just my view looking at the big picture IMO without getting too political

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What you are referring to Panga in saying "we own the waters" is our social licence to fish as opposed to a legislated license to fish. However, as I already highlighted, NSW gov doesn't recognise their rec license as having the intrinsic rights in law other licence forms are afforded. This would need to be clarified for any SA model.

 

Hence its all up to the will of the government. Linked below is an example of the will of the WA government funding snapper releases on top of previous public funding. This has been mooted for SA marine scalefish but Pirsa and SARDI dont seem interested?

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-18/liberals-make-pitch-to-recreational-fishing-community/8282998

 

Back to the "social licence" position, I look at the "70% increase in seafood demand by 2030" and "20 plus billion export target" statements on the state gov SAplan website, with an understanding of how that may threaten the viability of any social licence in the future.

 

The biggest question we as individuals and as a collective need to contemplate is....would an RFL maintain our social licence or will it still disappear under the weight of interstate and global export demand?

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There are many questions that can be asked about what the future holds for rec fishing in SA, but there is one thing that we already know - without any doubt.

 

And that is: If we do nothing, nothing is going to change.

 

Change won't come about solely via social media debates, particularly if those debates don't involve the decisions makers themselves. It will only happen if the rec fishing community takes action. I believe that the coming election will provide the best opportunity for change that we have seen for decades, and the rec fishing community (as a whole) needs to bite the bullet, get our act together and ensure that we put our case to the intending politicians.

 

We should not assume that the people (rec fishers) who will be selected by the rec fishing community and charged with driving the future of rec fishing in SA will be incapable of considering and dealing with issues of the future. But unless we have the opportunity (and that means funding) of putting those people in place we will continue just as we always have. To me the only issue at hand is to establish a means of funding and to put in place a broad-based (and agreed) organisational structure that will allow those people to get the job done.  Done correctly, there should be opportunity for any SA rec fisher with experience, knowledge and passion to be directly involved in the decision making of the future, which is how those future questions will be resolved.

 

I believe that we need to find some trust in ourselves and try not to raise all manner of potential problems that will prevent the rec fishing community of SA from doing anything at all while this election opportunity slips past; just as so many others have done before. 

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Just before Christmas myself and a fishing mate had a meeting with Tim Whetstone, the shadow minister for fishing who also happens to enjoy rec fishing with his family. The meeting was supposed to be a media event but was washed out by the weather. Instead we had a good chat about policies, rule changes etc. They do have a lot of good ideas to help us out but I cannot go into detail. All will be revealed during the election campaign, I know how I will be voting.

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Good luck in any case RJ with your plans. My intentions here were only to be informative as I don't even go fishing anymore and have moved on to other recreations. I have no intention of being formerly involved but still try my best to assist others with what I have researched over the years so solutions to problems are prepared for.

 

Cheers

 

Tackles

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Unless fishing licences raise enough to fix the pollution of Upper GSV by Bolivar treatment works then IMO it`s just another waste of time/money/effort.  Sick to death of it. We treat the damn gulf which is the most important breeding area in the state like a sewer & then wonder why we`ve got issues/problems. Fishing effort by rec`s & commercials alike has dropped since I was a youngster, it is far more "managed/regulated" now than it has ever been, decreased bag limits, fewer anglers, increased size limits BUT WE`RE STILL GOING BACKWARDS, IF YOU BELIEVE THE SCIENCE.              WHY ?     Could it be the experts/advisors are not focusing on the real cause of the problem ? I have mainly fished the area from NH/OH  north to Goannas for 50+ years as rec & commercial fisherman & it`s like desert nowadays. I have also been an avid scuba diver/snorkeller. Large rocks that held massive schools are almost devoid of anything these days, including baitfish, I see the same thing everywhere these days with underwater cameras & top of the line sounders. I have a huge number of grounds in the Pt Gawler/Goannas area that are almost barren/rarely have any fish (kgw) on `em. The rocks are still there, the sea-floor isn`t torn up, the corkweed etc all appears to be intact, so what`s going on ? There appears to be a lot of smothering/low growing weed like a carpet over the top of a lot of the bottom up that way. Have even seen it out 12 miles offshore on an area my old man took me to as a kid. Am told by marine biologists that it`s a result of too many/much nutrients in the water, & it originates from Bolivar. So the Gov`t knows, but is broke (as with all Labor Gov`ts) & in order to be seen to be doing something/score a few cheap political points they up size limits & reduce bag limits etc etc periodically & still we`re go backwards. They won`t do anything about Bolivar coz they`ve got no money, & they know it`ll cost squillions & then decades for the gulf to recover after they fix the pollution, & they`d rather spend it on stuff that is visible like new ovals,hospitals etc, "feel good stuff" that they can then say "I / We built that, aren`t we good, this is my legacy" to buy election results. Upgrading or building a new Sewage Treatment Plant is not going to buy them a lot of votes so they keep on with the same old same old until there`s no fish left. SO FOR ME, THEY CAN STUFF A REC FISHING LICENCE WHERE THE SUN DON`T SHINE COZ IT WILL NOT MAKE ONE IOTA OF DIFFERENCE IMO.

 

Cheers

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magic...thanks for your input...very informative...I didn't know that...we'll put that on the list of things WE need to change...WE..YOU...ME...EVERYBODY TOGHETHER...that's the only way ANYTHING is going to change...waiting for someone else to do something means...aint nothing changing today tomoro...ever.....How do WE get TOGETHER is now the question...everyones for a rec fishn license as long as the right actions are taken to ensure successful CHANGES to benefit our recreational fishn futures...sounds like everyones for a rec fishn license we just lack leadership...RJ5023...you and those smart capable fishos you mentioned need to draft up something...a plan...you fellas lead...and we'll all follow...everyones got a role to play in this...some big some small...all for one...one for all... :fish:  :fishing: 

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Further to my earlier post I neglected to say the marine biologists reckon we have 14 square kilometres of desert out from the treatment works at Bolivar, If we`ve got that much that is desert then how much is severely affected ?  & What the hell is the point of sanctuary zones/marine parks/ increased size limits/reduced bag limits/licence buy-backs etc etc. It`s all just political/politicised crap to make it look like they`re doing something, it`s grandstanding to the uninformed masses who`ve never fished a day in their life or put their head underwater but like the sound of the ideological rhetoric, all to buy votes & it ain`t gonna change coz the bastards are all tarred with the same brush.

 

Cheers ppl.

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...how about...a rec fishn license means we're altogether in a huge group acting as one with $5,000,000+ in the kitty to dictate to the powers that be whats best for you and me...sorta thing...we must have hope and a will to start the ball rolling amongst ourselves...right now I'm thinking of STAR WARS...the rebellion kicked the empires ass everytime by having hope...strong will...being together...and havn BIG BALLS (y) ...infighting and doubt is the darkside of the force...may the fish be with :facepalm:  :blush:  :laugh: 

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With all due respect bratko, even under a ring fence trust fund account, monies are spent based on committee decisions which are overseen/signed off by the Minister of the day.

 

Such monies can be used for better survey and catch data, tangible enhancement of fishing infrastructure, direct fish stock enhancement and better policing etc which may assist in advocacy but it's not for dictating to government.

 

Tackles

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Might be time to take a deep breath I think.

 

From the time of settlement of SA, we (all) have caught fish. In earlier times there were many more fish to catch, and fewer people who wanted to catch them. You only need to look at some of the pictures and read the stories from 100 and more years ago to see that fishing was "better" back then. From that time, the marine environment around Adelaide has been steadily degraded by runoff and pollution, while the number of people who want to catch fish has steadily increased. And so the fishing has become harder for everyone.

 

It's been the same story for the past 50 years until fairly recently when the number rec fishers has decreased significantly. I think that's happened simply because the fish are harder to find. The Commercial sector has followed the same trend, and probably for the same reason. Overall there are fewer fish to be caught, but this is masked by the widely used "sustainable" label, which has the simple goal of preventing different species of fish from being wiped out entirely while still allowing them to be caught. I think this is a "have your cake and eat it" approach, and it isn't working in a way that will allow the fishery to recover to what it was even 50 years ago.

 

Pollution and runoff are not really rec fishing issues, but we have to suffer the consequences. For that reason we should have a very loud voice in any issue that is going to increase either pollution or runoff, and an equally loud voice in pushing to have them reduced from what they are. We should also have a loud voice in promoting remediation projects that will help to return the marine environment back to something like it used to be - such as the current EPA project to re-seed sea grass along the inshore Metro waters. IMO recreational fishers should be the guardians of our marine environment rather than the conservationists who have claimed that role for themselves - and made such a mess of it.

 

But since we can't change history:-

 

  • What is the rec fishing community going to do to change this situation, and how are we going to do it?

 

  • As things stand we have very little (if any) influence on decision making in SA - and what needs to be done to change that?

 

  • Will anyone in Govt make decisions to specifically benefit rec fishers if we have no way of persuading them that they must?

 

 - Many other questions that could/should be asked, but that's just my take on the situation.

 

Cheers,

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Gains against degradation are small because there's not enough cash or people available to address the scope of the damage at least in the short term. Much of this countries waters are still not influenced heavily by pollution sources outside of plastic pollution however.

 

As for fisheries in SA, well I have conceeded to the fact the global seafood distribution sector (not the pro catchers themselves) have the influence over management RFL or no RFL. Large variations in commercial catch still occur during favourable environmental conditions due to the continued use of efficient methods without TACC's or by lowering public catch limits to make TACC's sustainable again. When conditions change, fisheries haven't left enough behind and public fishing gets hit.

 

Distribution of wealth from our marine resources is shared far more equitably within our states populace with a large recreational sector and small commercial sector just to supply local needs imho. An export culture channels profits into the hands of a few corporate seafood distributors especially if they dont invest it back into the state.

 

I dont adhere to the concept of continually slashing SA public limits while we still export tonnes either interstate and/or overseas depending on the fishery.

 

Exports needs should be managed after we have maximised our community industry not the other way around.

 

Tackles

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Hi Tackles, remember you from the dark side :) You really knew what you spoke about, as you were was always about the politics and I respected you for that. (y)

I think you were at the protest in Adelaide.

I know you know me.

When I said "IMO we the people own the waters / share and as a sport" was not really meant as it came over. I do not like or want to be dictated to by politicians that know jack and do not fish but look after the PROS. Over on Yorkes I see it all the time. Car park full of pro boat trailers and F250's

 

Look at how many tackle shops have close or are struggling !

IMO licences in WA it does not work, I know, I lived there for 20 years. It was and is a revenue raiser full stop and who knows where the monies go ? 

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Hi Panga. Sorry but I wasn't at any protest in Adelaide. I have often attended public consultation sessions but never protests.

 

I have always believed in following consultation processes to achieve desired outcomes. If the outcomes from those processes fail the public then that's the governments problem to deal with/be held accountable for not mine.

 

I dont see my position on fisheries as anti commercial or anti government. I just have different views on how to manage the resource sustainably. Quite simply we can't continue to use the gulfs scalefish stocks to supply the world or even interstate markets under current management mechanisms and maintain a sustainable local community fishery as well.

 

I have discussed fisheries management issues over the years with scientists and industry consultants around the country. One common response I get is "you raise issues which deserve far more attention than they get in Australia".

 

Fish stocks imho are relatively easy to manage Panga, its the politics which makes sustainability untenable.

 

I am well aware of the current costs you mention and see the future only too well. That's why I no longer go fishing and spend my days coaching/playing soccer and tennis.

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no probs chief....I openly admit youre more than a great deal smarter than myself at all of this....that's why I would vote for YOU to help lead us and organise us...as for the dictating to the government...you may be slightly wrong there...we put them in power...they work for us...theyre obviously doing a non existant effort  with regards to all of this...hence the conversation...its time to tell them what time it is...so to speak...im a hippy at heart...power to the people...politics government politicians have no moral compass...theyre dictated to by big business\corporations....right or wrong doesn't come into it for them...only money does...which ever way you I we look at this situation...our different views n theories don't really matter too much...only CHANGE for the better does...HOW?...that's why we're all still here watching reading and typing....cos we all care...I know you do and without people like your good self we're gonna get nowhere...in fact I think youre such a good fella I rekn you must be a Liverpool fan (y) ...too kool to be ManU :P 

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Bratko, are you aware of the groups that are fighting for our interests? SAFA and RecFishCentral? Many of us that are responding in this thread are associated with them. You seem to be trying to raise a new group, I would rather see more people involved with what we have, a couple of groups with a lot of members can have more influence than multiple groups of small numbers. As you are keen to say, "let's get together and make something happen". Also, are you aware of our "peak body" RecFishSA and what they have been up to the last few years?

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Howdy chief...no I'm not...only thru this forum thread am I learning about all of this...youre right I must look into these groups of ours you mention and educate my self a lot better to whats going on...my hearts in the right place...I just see a lot of inaction...no results...no change...ive said my bit on politics...obviously doesn't work...no change there...I went on a recent trip to Tasmania and Melbourne and that's where my eyes n heart became open to a rec fishn license...whatever fish ive caught here in the last 5 years I caught over there in 5 hours...so to speak...we can talk nicely to the government until we pass out from exhaustion to no avail whatsoever...my belief is nearly 300.000 fishos together is a force that cant be ignored...hence my pushing for the rec fishn license....talkn to pollies does stuff all...if they were yours\our mates theyd do something about the problem...like I said unfortunately money rules all decision making today...SAs fishos paying a rec fishn license = a huge group with a common interest and a shitload of cash knocking on the pollies door that cannot be ignored...theres never been an answer in politics...obviously...hence no change...we are the change...no one else...the cash is the vehicle to initiate change...we'll only get out of it what we put into it...im not your enemy my friend...im just another concerned apprentice fisho trying to fan the flames of revolution before its too late...the song says..."put up a fight you believe to be right and someday the sun will shine thru"...seems like we're all fishin in the "wishing well"...lawn bowls not for me...but bocce...anytime youre ready chief B)  ;) 

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Hi Panga. Sorry but I wasn't at any protest in Adelaide. I have often attended public consultation sessions but never protests.

 

I have always believed in following consultation processes to achieve desired outcomes. If the outcomes from those processes fail the public then that's the governments problem to deal with/be held accountable for not mine.

 

I dont see my position on fisheries as anti commercial or anti government. I just have different views on how to manage the resource sustainably. Quite simply we can't continue to use the gulfs scalefish stocks to supply the world or even interstate markets under current management mechanisms and maintain a sustainable local community fishery as well.

 

I have discussed fisheries management issues over the years with scientists and industry consultants around the country. One common response I get is "you raise issues which deserve far more attention than they get in Australia".

 

Fish stocks imho are relatively easy to manage Panga, its the politics which makes sustainability untenable.

 

I am well aware of the current costs you mention and see the future only too well. That's why I no longer go fishing and spend my days coaching/playing soccer and tennis.

Thanks Tackle's  I  know and have seen "Bill the fish Monger" traveling around Yorks in his Mec van picking up fish  and transporting large quantities of fish  to Victoria, from pro's 2 to 3 times a week!!! With my own eyes and got it from his own mouth.

He has left SA and is now in Vic as he owes a lot of black money to many people. And me but that is another story. :angry:

And I would say this is going on in other areas of our SA gulfs and waters IMO,

We could compare it to the stock market, (better prices and sort of species and with larger population comes more demand) 

 

Cheers

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I appreciate the response, yes a liverpool fan since the early 80's as a kid.

 

Can't be too hard on pollies or generalise them all. There are some who play with a straight bat but also have to exist within the system to conitinue to serve the public. Ever had situations not ideal but had to settle with the lesser of many evils?

 

Its important to remember that the really wealthy in OZ don't share their wealth like other western nations do and SA's wealthy are even more conservative than the rest of the states. The gap is growing (tabulated via graphs since the 1970's) and that gap has political influence.

 

Put yourself in a pollies shoes. They need votes yes but antagonising business magnates who have the cash and global connections to launch large media campaigns isnt smart politics and can cost them many votes.

 

At the moment the State gov wants the export dollars coming into the state. Its not that they are bad but they see it as the lesser of two evils in trying to bring a surplus budget back to the state. Industry are not evil either they are just far more successful at lobbying than we recs are.

 

I see optimum use of the resource as a large equitably shared community fishery which includes a small commercial fishing sector to supply local needs.

 

Perhaps some think I am bad because of my view?

 

I would say life definately isn't always fair for rec fishers in SA but its not because the gov, industry or my views are bad, we just have different goals and ways of achieving those goals.

 

As for leading well I have tried that but don't have the time or inclination to be formerly involved again. My priorities and goals have changed!

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...reading your words i swear all i heard and felt was...

When you walk through a storm, hold your head up high
And don’t be afraid of the dark
At the end of the storm, there’s a golden sky
And the sweet, silver song of a lark

Walk on through the wind
Walk on through the rain
Though your dreams be tossed and blown

Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you’ll never walk alone
You’ll never walk alone

Walk on, walk on
With hope in your heart
And you’ll never walk alone
You’ll never walk alone

 

...i trully hope one day Tacklebags junior catches a bigger snapper than you in your profile pic and he scores the winner for Liverpool in the FA cup final...one or the other ill be happy...but he'll need your help to do that...just like our fishn community needs help from magic fellas like yourself...peace

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There are bigger fish to fry. As the biggest stakeholder, we are being treated like chicken little. Our rights as equal stakeholders of a shared resource, have been sold off to backroom deals with a Minister. An RFL will not fix this situation, nor will it stop the encroaching conservationists. The first move forward, should be the formation of a Rec fishing council. Here reps from the various representative groups would form an independent body. This would have a powerful voice. We need our rights under, the fisheties ACT restored, proper surveys and community impact. studies done etc. From here this council, could manage an RFL from a trust fund. Ensuring that our money is protected from abuse.

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There are bigger fish to fry. As the biggest stakeholder, we are being treated like chicken little. Our rights as equal stakeholders of a shared resource, have been sold off to backroom deals with a Minister. An RFL will not fix this situation, nor will it stop the encroaching conservationists. The first move forward, should be the formation of a Rec fishing council. Here reps from the various representative groups would form an independent body. This would have a powerful voice. We need our rights under, the fisheties ACT restored, proper surveys and community impact. studies done etc. From here this council, could manage an RFL from a trust fund. Ensuring that our money is protected from abuse.

Unfortunately the pathetic response from rec fishers to the recent government attempt to ask what we wanted pretty much summed up the reason for what happens. Out of about 280K rec fishers, 800 or so turned up at the community consultations and about 1500 bothered to fill in the questionaires.

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There are bigger fish to fry. As the biggest stakeholder, we are being treated like chicken little. Our rights as equal stakeholders of a shared resource, have been sold off to backroom deals with a Minister. An RFL will not fix this situation, nor will it stop the encroaching conservationists. The first move forward, should be the formation of a Rec fishing council. Here reps from the various representative groups would form an independent body. This would have a powerful voice. We need our rights under, the fisheties ACT restored, proper surveys and community impact. studies done etc. From here this council, could manage an RFL from a trust fund. Ensuring that our money is protected from abuse.

Unfortunately the pathetic response from rec fishers to the recent government attempt to ask what we wanted pretty much summed up the reason for what happens. Out of about 280K rec fishers, 800 or so turned up at the community consultations and about 1500 bothered to fill in the questionaires.
Most of the 1500 submissions were against the proposed changes. Recfishsa's survey showed over half were opposed to the whiting reduction.

 

The proposed spatial closures around yorke peninsula were small. The one implemented afterwards is huge. There was broad cross sectional issues raised including commercial wildcatch, aquaculture and marine scalefish restocking via the submissions, the recfishsa survey and at the meetings but how many of those issues have or are being addressed by Pirsa?

 

So one can look at the numbers who participated as a blight on rec fishers themselves or one can see view it from the perspective that most knew the outcome and no longer bother.

 

The large participation decrease in the 2013/14 rec survey and feedback to a FRDC report from 2011 on rec fishers views of management performance highlights less and less think its a worthwhile use of their time.

 

Like me they probably have moved on to other recreations in life?

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There are bigger fish to fry. As the biggest stakeholder, we are being treated like chicken little. Our rights as equal stakeholders of a shared resource, have been sold off to backroom deals with a Minister. An RFL will not fix this situation, nor will it stop the encroaching conservationists. The first move forward, should be the formation of a Rec fishing council. Here reps from the various representative groups would form an independent body. This would have a powerful voice. We need our rights under, the fisheties ACT restored, proper surveys and community impact. studies done etc. From here this council, could manage an RFL from a trust fund. Ensuring that our money is protected from abuse.

Unfortunately the pathetic response from rec fishers to the recent government attempt to ask what we wanted pretty much summed up the reason for what happens. Out of about 280K rec fishers, 800 or so turned up at the community consultations and about 1500 bothered to fill in the questionaires.

 

Trust funds do not ensure protection of monies from abuse, many a lawyer has diddled their trust fund & I have had first hand experience of it when my mother passed.

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its still a big no from me.

 

lets put a tax on everything for crying out loud.

 

how about - LETS NOT!

 

A COST TO GO FISHING ???? NEXT THEY WILL CHARGE US FOR WALKING ON SAND!

 

IMO there is no need or place for a rec fish license in SA.

 

rec fishing has already become a expensive hobbie compared to past years. if you own a boat you have trailer and boat rego, ramp fees etc ontop of bait tackle petrol and maintenance.

 

SO WHY THROW IN ANOTHER COST WHEN THE CONS OUT WAY THE PROS?

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