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The Flouro Carbon Myth


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One of the reasons I use it, was its better abrasion resistance and knot strength - the tests I saw were comparing flouro to the popular mono "Berkley Trilene XL" which I was using at the time.

The XL mono absorbs alot of water and looses half its strength after 10 mins underwater - but the article states the XL is a low quality mono - and it isnt a true indication of what "coated", higher quality mono's, can do

 

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I remember using some about 20 years ago on a trip to venus bay. Lost trevally after trevally, so threw it out and went back to my maxima line. No lost fish after that (same 6 pound line class).

Not sure if I had to use different knots or not but since that experience, haven't gone back. Fish with a lot of people who use all different lines, including fluro but my catch rates are compatible.  I also change over my line annually :) Except braid - had that for 5 years and it's still going strong!

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I have found that when tying Fluoro the knot needs to be well & truley lubricated (spit) before pulling it up tight to increase the knot strength.

If you tie a knot without/with little lube & pull it tight watch what happens to the fluoro at the base of the knot just as it gets tight & you can watch the damage happen.

Since I've started really slobbering on my fluoro knots if had next to no failures

Yorky

 

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Personally used nylon leaders up until relatively recently and don't think I'll go back in the lighter line classes; that is to say anything under 20lb. 

 

Flouro is more abrasion resistant, lasts longer without weakening and personally I find it is less prone to breaking in the knot than the nylons I previously used. I used Maxima, YGK, Berkley trilene, Stren magnathin etc etc and the rockfish FC outperforms them all. 

 

In anything over 15lb I use black magic leader material. Really rate it for everything from surface whiting (yes I use 20lb for yfw) to livebaiting kings, bottom bashing etc etc

Edit: should add that the shorter spool lengths of Flouro do mean you replace them more often and probably help when it comes to not letting the line get too old; which is probably a good thing for anyone that doesn't remember the exact date and Moon phase on which they bought that spool of mono. 

 

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13 hours ago, David_C said:

I remember using some about 20 years ago on a trip to venus bay. Lost trevally after trevally, so threw it out and went back to my maxima line. No lost fish after that (same 6 pound line class).

Not sure if I had to use different knots or not but since that experience, haven't gone back. Fish with a lot of people who use all different lines, including fluro but my catch rates are compatible.  I also change over my line annually :) Except braid - had that for 5 years and it's still going strong!

Yeah I used to believe the "invisible in water" claim. Mainly because I like to telling people it has a similar "light refractive index to water". But then I saw  video of people taking flourocarbon under water and showing that it wasnt.

But its a good claim to make for a Melbourne Bream angler - Noone is going to dunk their heads under the water in the Yarra to check if the claims are true😉

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12 hours ago, Yorky said:

I have found that when tying Fluoro the knot needs to be well & truley lubricated (spit) before pulling it up tight to increase the knot strength.

If you tie a knot without/with little lube & pull it tight watch what happens to the fluoro at the base of the knot just as it gets tight & you can watch the damage happen.

Since I've started really slobbering on my fluoro knots if had next to no failures

Yorky

 

Yeah I've noticed different flouro's, have different levels of stickyness when tightening uni knots - Vanish Mainline flouro is noticeable easier to tighten, than the FlouroKote I'm trialing (Kast King Brand) 

I've found I have to be super careful when tightening - Slobber, plus keep the knot under my tongue, in a pool of spit as I tighten - sometimes than doesnt even work, and I have the grab the knot between thumb and fore finger and ease it down the line. Because if I just try to yank it down - I get friction damage which severely weakens the line



 

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51 minutes ago, AquaticResearch1 said:

Personally used nylon leaders up until relatively recently and don't think I'll go back in the lighter line classes; that is to say anything under 20lb. 

 

Flouro is more abrasion resistant, lasts longer without weakening and personally I find it is less prone to breaking in the knot than the nylons I previously used. I used Maxima, YGK, Berkley trilene, Stren magnathin etc etc and the rockfish FC outperforms them all. 

 

In anything over 15lb I use black magic leader material. Really rate it for everything from surface whiting (yes I use 20lb for yfw) to livebaiting kings, bottom bashing etc etc

Edit: should add that the shorter spool lengths of Flouro do mean you replace them more often and probably help when it comes to not letting the line get too old; which is probably a good thing for anyone that doesn't remember the exact date and Moon phase on which they bought that spool of mono. 

 

Yeah when I read that Trilene XL mono sucks up water like a sponge and loses half its strength after 10 mins under water - I thought all mono's did that - so I was instantly put off mono.

I tend to fish quite light and I need every bit of strength a line can give,. Losing half its strength when it gets wet is a massive deal breaker.

Your point about shorter spool length is well made - I buy bulk spools (200m plus) and you notice the deterioration the further into the spool you get. Its like the line at the bottom of the spools gets crushed and distorted. So it has a noticeably rougher feel as it slides through your fingers.

 

 

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1 hour ago, SurfcaztR said:

 

Yeah I'd like to see if soaking the spools for 30 mins, made any difference.

Its the water absorption that is supposed to weaken the mono line.

But those results give real cause for concern for the "Flouro Is Tougher camp".

There are so many lies in the fishing game thats its hard to tell whats real - even stated diameters and breaking strains are often wildly different from what it says on the spool.

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For me fluro for trace wins in every way except price and I will personally never go back, I can't say I've tried them all of course but the ones ive chosen to use, BCF Kato, Berkley, and a number of randoms from clearance racks I thought looked good, have significantly out performed my old mono traces, schroeder, schneider, maxima, platypus and many others, in every way.

It's not all just subjective either, sure I've done the underwater look for myself thing (fluro wins easy for my eyes) but also fished the 2 side by side in the type of conditions that count eg drummer in reef, snapper off the rocks bream around cover and also when fish are touchy and again fluro easily was better for abrasion resistance and seemed to keep getting bites when nothing touched the mono.

The only bit i do agree with a tiny bit is the knot strength BUT only on average if you count every knot tied. Poor knots will fail in fluro where mono is more forgiving so properly test the knot to see if it is going to fail before using, normally any issues with the knot and it goes well below breaking strain, but if you get it right then again much better than mono. 

Oh, it's normally significantly less stretchy too, like wayyyy less.

So when I see these types of claims I'm just not buying it and calling click bait because hard work and experience has taught me otherwise.

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I've always used Fluro for my Bream stuff as i was always told it was invisible under water compared to Mono so just stuck with it for that reason only. With my Callop fishing i've been using a spool of platypus 20lb mono i've had kicking around for years and that takes a beating while dragging lures and spinners over snags/logs and i've never had a bust off issue yet that was caused by damaged line. Only reason i used the mono in the fresh is the water is far from clear compared to most of the salt water fishing.

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11 hours ago, Wert said:

...fished the 2 side by side in the type of conditions that count eg drummer in reef, snapper off the rocks bream around cover and also when fish are touchy and again fluro easily was better for abrasion resistance and seemed to keep getting bites when nothing touched the mono....

 

I've found this also. I tend to think it is for the following reasons

 

-Lighter flouro holds up better than the equivalent breaking strain mono, therefore you'll be using it in a situation where you may call for mono 50% to 100% stronger again than the flouro.

- I've caught decent fish on 5lb flouro in complete comfort, knowing the line won't have any issues, but the same fish I would have needed to have been nervous fishing even 10lb Trilene or 6lb magnathin. Maxima ultragreen on the other hand in an 8lb or so I wouldn't have been too concerned, but I don't believe I would have got the bite due to the other characteristics of the line. 

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22 hours ago, Soobz said:

 Hate these blanket claims. If they want to say brand X mono in 10lb vs brand Y Fluoro in 10 lb then maybe you can make a comparison.

Fully agree with you Soobz. 

As the old Castrol ad claimed "oils aint oils, Sol", the same applies to fishing line whether it be mono, fluro or braid. Different brands, different quality.

Me being an 'old fart', a lot of my fishing took place before fluro and super-lines were invented, or if they had of been they were not readily available to most fishos and as unbelievable that it may come across to some, those of us who fished in the same era caught our fair share of fish using nothing but mono.

I do believe that a lot of the hype around most fishing gear these days is generated by consumerism and marketing, not so much the proven science behind thorough testing in the field. Sure, lab tests will give an indication of whether or not a certain product lives up to manufacturer's claims, but it's out there in the real world where it needs to work and that brings in a lot of variables. 

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On 14/11/2020 at 8:36 AM, SurfcaztR said:

The Hybid line works just as good as full fluorocarbon at a cheaper price,including Yo-Zuri Hybrid

Too many variables in choices these days

 

 

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I used the Kast King 80 & 130lb fluorokote.. Worked well for me.. 37 kilo King landed... Held the knots ok.... When I worked out what works best.... Great on rocks.....

Used the KastKing Superpower Dyneema braid in 8 strand 80lb.... Worked well for me... For the price.. You cant go wrong..

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1 hour ago, SurfcaztR said:

Have some fisho's gotten so technical and in depth with the equipment they're got they've actually forgotten to go out fishing ?

Maybe, but for me fishing is my number 2 reason for life behind family so I give it the love it deserves. It's something ive been doing since as long as I can remember (40 years) and would wet a line on average at least weekly and in the past sometimes a lot more often so to me it is worth getting technical and in depth with equipment to make the most of the experience.

Better quality gear makes fishing better. 

I don't just believe the hype, I try for myself.

High quality thin braid improves cast distance (important from shore), water resistance (important from boat) and sensitivity (important).

Mono v fluro is per above and hooks, swivels etc can all have the same discussions.

Rods and Reels are another thread unto themselves but needless to say a sub $100 combo will never match the effectiveness of a $400 set up not to mention the longevity and pleasure of use. You don't need to be rich either, I'm not I save, sometimes for years knowing that in the long run I'm probably saving money and getting a better experience, and yes, I catch fish too.

Sorry to go on but I feel like sometimes people think if you have good gear you're not a real fisherman and it is just so untrue, fair enough each to their own but don't say I don't even fish.

 

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I love my "specials".... Rapala 75r type.. $97, Samaki 12' foot heavy surf rod= $69.... Kastking braid/leader+ cheaper than others and just as good. I also have expesnive rods/reels,, But not to be used on hard rocky areas.. They get trashed fishing off rocks.. My nephew has $1500 reels/rods.. Work just the same a cheaper stuff.. I do agree, dearer stuff lasts, but I cant see myself paying BIG $ for  rod/reel..

Im happy with what Ive got.. and it does perform..

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Majority fishing SA are targeting bread and butter species,whiting,ST's,squid,crabs,flathead,garfish.No need on high end stuff but the most important part of any set up is the line that attaches you to the fish.I remember a tackle store owner telling me how some will spend 600-$900 on rod and reel and then ask for the cheapest line on special.

Whatever anyone uses it's there choice and i won't rubbish anyone on what they use high or low end tackle as i have been down both paths.Just got to keep remember the reason why your doing this sport.

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It's not what you've got, but how you use it that separates a better fisho from an average one.

Top shelf gear is definitely great to use, but it doesn't necessarily make the fishing better or the person using it a better fisho. I've just spent the past couple of months fishing with a mate in Cooktown and he is a real tackle snob who only uses high end gear, but he lacks some of the basic skills when it comes to going head to head with big fish - it cost him a $1200 Millerod that self destructed on a big mackie.

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 15/11/2020 at 9:55 AM, SurfcaztR said:

Have some fisho's gotten so technical and in depth with the equipment they're got they've actually forgotten to go out fishing ?

I use 17lb braid and 17lb flouro when chasing Jewies land based - thats quite light - but if I go heavier, I cant cast my lures far enough to reach the spots I need to hit.

So I need to squeeze every ounce of strength out of that combo, when trying to muscle a big fish out. 

I think guys who redline line their gear around structure, probably think more about this stuff than others - Losing half your leaders strength, after it gets wet, isnt a luxury all can afford.

So if there are solutions to that problem - they're worth thinking about😉

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