Great whites need to be removed

[ausea 4]

Now I know this is going to sound one sided from my point of view.Great whites should be taken out when they enter the metro areas as some come in during summer and have on regular pattern.The point I’m trying to make here is when a family group goes out lets say a 12 foot tinnie and a 5m pointer comes along and capsizes the boat and chews on the 2 adults and one child.It’s going to happen soon ,possibly this summer.Now your reaction to taking out the shark is shock horror how can you even think about doing something like that to a shark.It’s not the sharks fault.True.It’s their domain and we trespass into it.Sure we do and hundreds of thousands of people do every year.Now what are your thoughts when it was your family or individual that got taken that day?. It all could have been avoided by taking that shark out the first time it got spotted in our metro waters.One answer would be>stay away from the water.As that won’t happen this summer with the public.Should we be thinking about protecting the humans or the white pointer as it’s an aggressive shark.Am I being totally unreasonable here in my way of thinking or making a true and honest assumption of the situation.Remember….. the point here is humans come first before a white pointer.Your thoughts.

[jagger 24]

ausea wrote:

Now I know this is going to sound one sided from my point of view.Great whites should be taken out when they enter the metro areas as some come in during summer and have on regular pattern.The point I’m trying to make here is when a family group goes out lets say a 12 foot tinnie and a 5m pointer comes along and capsizes the boat and chews on the 2 adults and one child.It’s going to happen soon ,possibly this summer.Now your reaction to taking out the shark is shock horror how can you even think about doing something like that to a shark.It’s not the sharks fault.True.It’s their domain and we trespass into it.Sure we do and hundreds of thousands of people do every year.Now what are your thoughts when it was your family or individual that got taken that day?. It all could have been avoided by taking that shark out the first time it got spotted in our metro waters.One answer would be>stay away from the water.As that won’t happen this summer with the public.Should we be thinking about protecting the humans or the white pointer as it’s an aggressive shark.Am I being totally unreasonable here in my way of thinking or making a true and honest assumption of the situation.Remember….. the point here is humans come first before a white pointer.Your thoughts.

Here we go again !!! Let me put it to you this way...Every time you enter into something you do a risk assessment (even if you don't think you do) If you don't know the area you accept all risk.By comparison... should all pedestrians be removed from walking across roads " in case" a car my hit them ?? Of course not, and we can make rules and regulations in this situation, yet things are still going to happen.Question ?..Should all stingrays be taken out in case another well-educated eco warrior is accidentally speared ??Yes... you have done a very good job of stirring the pot if that is what you are trying to achieve but I think some people around here will see a very dim view of this type of talk on this forum.My two cents !

[Ranger 48]

Good post! This is one which has long been debated, and also one which people just cannot agree on!Just between you and me, I think it's also a topic which has the potential to become quite heated due to the many different opinions. Even the experts can't all agree on this one and argue the point! As long as we can all remain civil it's a good one to discuss though.I have heard many saying that the water is the sharks territory and if we enter the water we take a risk.Another arguement is that the GW's are a protected species, so what right do we have to interfere with them?I don't necessarily agree with this train of thought though!I was always of the view that Great Whites inhabit deep water not shallow coastal areas, so I would dispute the fact that the water (shallow metro beaches) is the sharks territory.Here in Australia we are a seaside culture. The sandy beaches and the sun bronzed image renowned worldwide, where in the warmer months we all pick up the family and flock to the beaches in droves.You cannot prevent people from heading to the beach as it's a part of our culture, and the greatest population of Australia all live along our coastal areas. With summer approaching, we need to know the local beaches are safe for our families!Do we have a duty to protect the native wildlife or a duty to protect our families? Where does the greater duty lie? What is more important? What effect would a shark attack have on the community? What effect would the slaughter of a protect species create? Are metro beaches really the sharks territory? Why can't shark nets or other devices be employed? Are current methods effective? Is it all about safety, conservation or money? Are fishermen and tourist boats responsible for the sharks getting used to people and losing their fear? Is a lack of food driving the sharks to range further?There are endless questions abounding this subject, and I'm sure just as many views on it.I'm happy to hear those views, but can I ask that we not to let the topic degrade into a slinging match or heated arguement as it has on many other forums where the subject has been raised.

[Gelboy 0]

I would say if this was a major public / government concern we would already be limited to swimming,boating "between the poles / within the shark nets",etc as are some beaches around this country and internationally.As every shark spotting within metro areas is taken upon the public to alert the relevant authorities and they act accordingly, to make safe the public as best they can,by the only way possible by utilising surf patrol bodies and shark planes etc, these occurences are and could only be acted upon in a "spot the fire basis" there would be literally limiltess different situations of which would need to be acted upon, this fact as well as the limited resources available. human resources and government expenditure obviously deem the risk to be taken by the boaters and swimmers as has been done for decades" Use the environment for your own use take all personal precautions neccesary look after the environment, but you do so at your own risk"....S

[rocknev 2]

we had the largest ammount of sightings in south australia of great whites in whyalla last year.its nowthought they are using the shallow water to breed and give birth...http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2007/05/02/1912125.htm

[rocknev 2]

http://www.fearbeneath.com/2008/10/47-white-sharks-spotted-around-whyalla/

[Highfly 0]

By all means keep the ban on targetting Whites as a sport fish but maybe exempt our gulf.Two people have been killed in the last three or four years less than a few kms from shore.In you could save 2 lives every three years in any other industry you'd jump on it wouldnt you?

[carps 1]

personally i would never kill one they are an awsome example of what nature can produce,and the finest example of a killing machine..would i like to be allowed to catch and release one HELL YES..the only predetor i beleive that should be put to sleep are of the pedophile kind animals dont know eating us is wrong and why should they some would say we know right from wrong and we still eat them...no species of animal on this earth is any less important than another so unless ya gonna eat it leave it alone...my two bobs worth

[jagger 24]

With summer approaching, we need to know the local beaches are safe for our families!Do we have a duty to protect the native wildlife or a duty to protect our families? Where does the greater duty lie? What is more important? What effect would a shark attack have on the community? What effect would the slaughter of a protect species create? Are metro beaches really the sharks territory? Why can't shark nets or other devices be employed? Are current methods effective? Is it all about safety, conservation or money? Are fishermen and tourist boats responsible for the sharks getting used to people and losing their fear? Is a lack of food driving the sharks to range further?Ranger you have made some very good points..As I am now a father I realise what it is like to want to protect your family. I will be taking my family into the water this year as I feel the threat is not that great and I surf as much as I can and only last week a mate had a small bronzie pop up next to him on a popular metro beach while surfing. Did it attack.. no of course not. If I honestly thought the risk was that great I would be purchasing shark repellants as what else legally can I do ?I invite Rodney fox to have his two cents on the subject but we all know what he would say as he's leading the push for protection even after near death due to an attack.Fear can do a lot to people but it's education that breaks down the barriers. Look into it people.

[SandyWhiting 0]

Hmmmmmmm this is a tuff one, and very touchy..I already do NOT let my kids swim out by the jetty here, we have a perfectly good pontoon fenced in at our beach, as my kids are Beach freaks, they have been spotted not far from from our jetty , as kids we used to snorkle all the time way past the end of the jetty, for Blueys..My Uncle has a Boat here in Whyalla, and he has seen quite a few that circled his boat, enough for my Aunty to stop going all together fishing..And he has a rather big boat too.. I would not like to see them killed, its not just great whites that are potential killers, there is all sorts, rays, bronzies, jelly fish, stone fish, In other states, the list is endless..We cant kill all of them off aswell..When you enter the water, you are at risk..Yes it is a tragedy when attacks happen, and god forbid i would ever want that for my Family..

[adrenalin 32]

Hi guys, I will throw my very short point of view on this subject in a way of 2 questions:1) Do you think that catching a few White pointers in the Gulf waters means we can safely swim? or boat in a small dingy without any further risks from GWs?2) Allowing people to fish for GW in the 2 Golfs would mean lots of people "berleying big time" with Tunas! Wouldn't this actually risk to bring even more GWs in the Gulf Waters? and in particular get the ones already here really in a frenzy?Looking forward to some answers,Opti P.S. My only 2 encounters with GWs on my boat developed both in a very similar way. The sharks, one 5m and one 3.5m circled us several hours while we caught lots of fish. Some time disappearing for an hour or so, then returning. And never ever they looked threatening to us and never ever they attempted to grab our baits or any fish we were pulling up! I have never been on one of this GW charters but I cannot but wonder how much blood goes into the water to get them into an aggressive mood. I would really enjoy hearing the opinion of someone with a lot of real hand on experience on GWs, I am thinking Rolf Czabayski!

[EddieV 0]

I went on one of these GW charters earlier this year and i was surprised by how little blood and offal they used. Perhaps we were lucky and the sharks come around quite easy so there wasnt much of a need to burley much but i think they only used a couple of small buckets of offal.As for killing the sharks to be frank that is a stupid idea. People know the risks of swimming in the ocean and if you cannot accept these risks then i suggest you dont swim in the ocean and buy a ticket for your local swimming pool. Personally i have always swam in the ocean and have told my family in no uncertain terms that i wouldnt want any shark that injured or killed me killed in return. I think more people will drown at beaches this year ten will be killed by sharks in the next 10 years.

[snapperhead 523]

The day a GW knocks on my door and then bites my head off is the day I would agree to culling them.We are entering their their environment where they are the top of the food chain, it is surely at our own risk.What about crocs, bronzies, lions, tigers, hippos, rays, snakes, dingoes, dogs, spiders, bee's etc etc etc. There are so many critters out their that have killed Human Beings throughout the ages what is the difference between all of them and Great Whites.Its part of nature the whole scheme of things bigger creatures eat smaller creatures which we happen to be. We kill so many of them dont forget its only fair that once in a while one of them get their own back.We tend to think all creature think the same way we do and try to use our emotions too much. I sincerely doubt any sharks thinks hmmmmmm time to head down to Glenelg beach and grab me a fresh human for tea. They are opportunistic feeders who take advantage of a situation when hungry and food presents itself.Live and let live.cheerssnapps

[jagger 24]

EddieV wrote:

I went on one of these GW charters earlier this year and i was surprised by how little blood and offal they used. Perhaps we were lucky and the sharks come around quite easy so there wasnt much of a need to burley much but i think they only used a couple of small buckets of offal.As for killing the sharks to be frank that is a stupid idea. People know the risks of swimming in the ocean and if you cannot accept these risks then i suggest you dont swim in the ocean and buy a ticket for your local swimming pool. Personally i have always swam in the ocean and have told my family in no uncertain terms that i wouldnt want any shark that injured or killed me killed in return. I think more people will drown at beaches this year ten will be killed by sharks in the next 10 years.

They are amazing creatures EddieV that can smell mere drops of blood from KM's away. :ohmy: If you look at the stats you can guarantee that more people will die from drowning that from GW attacks over a ten year period.

[ausea 4]

We do have one GW I think it’s nickname is big fred which cruises along our coast and gets spotted on a regular basis and seen at the sunken barges at port stanvac and at Glenelg. Fairly sure it’s in the 5m size.I have dived for years and spotted many sharks when spear fishing and less while just using a tank in all those situations while carrying a power head you never feel completely safe as you never will know what’s going to happen next.In most cases for safety divers pairing is not uncommon,over the years shark sightings is common in 20 feet of water and that maybe only 50m from shore.all this in our local area.I have never seen a white pointer under water but other sharks such as bronzies and greys are common.They have come as close as 5-6 feet from us.Sharks will strike if any blood is in the water and being a diver this risk side increases significantly.Yes I have met Rodney fox and his views and yes I do understand what sharks are like while being in the water.We have some replies saying then we need to kill every thing.If your pet dog bites your own child most would have the dog put down.If a GW bites it takes a life then I guess that’s expected and bad luck.Right.?I think we don’t need them in our metro waters and that’s the only area that needs to be protected.I’m in no way saying we need to take out every one,just the local one in our metro waters.

[carps 1]

for the record i have 2 young boys and i wouldnt own a dog while my boys are young as they cant be trusted either and you are right i would kill the dog if it bit one of my boys and because i dont want to have to do it i dont put them in the situation where it can happen...get my drift they are only animals doin what animals do,,you have got more chance of getting stabbed walking to your car on a fri night at the pub by a different kind of animal

[Fishie 98]

"Now what are your thoughts when it was your family or individual that got taken that day?."I've had the misfortune to lose a family member and his mate in the mid 1960's out on Clarries... the boat was found 3 days later by the police boat still at anchor but turned upside with a great split down the middle of the boat and snapper lines still tied to the gunwales. The police said it was a shark attack but because the bodies were never found they didn't become shark attack statistics.Having said that..... I completely agree with snapperhead's comments. You are in their domain, so accept the dangers

[kayakfisher 0]

I have never seen a great white in person apart from when that decomposing whale was floating around at cape jervis. I go out on my kayak and if there's no fish biting your mind starts to wonder and you start to think about them. I know there is a chance it will happen to me but I think the chance is minimal and worthwhile to take. I minimise the risks by not burlying, using lures mostly and If i do use bait its usually cockles or squid. I have had a bronzie about 8 feet come up and have a look at me and while it wasn't the saftest I've ever felt I didn't ruin my wetsuit. I think everyone knows the risk is there and accepts that. I don't go walking through long grass in summer with thongs and shorts on cause I'm worried about snakes. If your that worried about sharks don't go in the ocean. I would like to see one on a chrater or in a boat (as long boat is 20ft long or so) so why should people be able to kill them. If I went out and killed snakes because I don't like them I'm sure there'd be plenty of people up in arms about that.

[jagger 24]

I would be careful quoting they "will" strike if blood is in the water. More like, they would be likely to strike, or they could strike. I have surfed down victor way for over 15 years now and have managed to nick myself on boards, fins, reefs, etc... and they are very likely to be in the near vacinity when my blood has been in the water. Still have ten toes and two legs.Dogs...You can teach a dog, train a dog most even raise a child with a dog. If it still bites a child then it probably deserves to be put down as it can not be trusted any further. Sharks in gerneral have acheived a level of trust obviously or they would be behind fences at our beaches like dogs are behind yards. For my money, I don't trust any dogs with my toddler, even considered giving the cat away incase he swiped him as a baby but where do you stop ??There's a natural equilibium on the ocean and if you get rid of the metro resident GW's almost guarantee you will find younger, more aggressive GWs will move in and possibly cause more hype if they move in closer to our beaches.When was the last time a GW was seen in waist deep water on our metro beached which is where most families congregate ? I know we lost a young lad back in '05' from Glenelg but that was in 15-20ft of water wasn't it ?? Where's the risk for our families there ??Just more food for thought..

[kayakfisher 0]

Have to agree that surely more will move in if you remove the local ones. Most of what I have read and heard is that most of them are quite nomadic anyway, covering great distances. As long as there are crabs and snapper coming up the gulfs there will be sharks following them. If we kill a couple every year in metro waters there might not be many left anywhere soon.

[SandyWhiting 0]

Not all dogs are Untrustworthy carps, its how they are socialised and brought up ... I have 2 Dogs, One a pure bred Amstaff, and the Other a Bull terrier cross staff...Both breeds frowned upon... Had them since tiny puppies, I trust them to a tea with my kids, even my 6 yr old, if anything my Girl ( Amstaff) is very very protective of my youngest..Im always present when they play with the dogs, not because I dont trust them but because they can get a little rough while they are playing.. As in he may get knocked over.Iv gone right off topic back to whites...Soz...

[jagger 24]

That's the thing though SandyWhiting.. you can train dogs and they become part of the family. Even certain breeds, Iv'e seen ot first hand. Still not for me though...Statistics still speak volumes though.

[carps 1]

on behalf of the mod team we would like to thank everyone on the handling of a subject that has got out of hand on many other forums..we have spent the day watching this one and waiting for the shit storm to start,it is a touchy subject with very dif points of views that can easily lead to heated exchange and as a group we were-are releaved that it didnt..with the sharking season about to start this debate is going to continue and there will be a few dif versions of it,should we be allowed to target sharks from local beaches-to burley-sharking at swimming beaches and so forth.at least our job is made easier by knowing that the conversation can be had without turning into a free for all.so from the mod team a big thanks a touchy topic and not one post deleted or edited

[Ranger 48]

SandyWhiting wrote:

Not all dogs are Untrustworthy carps, its how they are socialised and brought up ...

Speaking as an Animal Technician and Veterinary Nurse, plus working with dogs for the last 10 years I recon I'd dispute this.Children and dogs should never be left unsupervised regardless of breed or size.......and the same goes for the dog! This doesn't necessarily mean the dog is in the wrong, as children can be quite cruel pulling tails, sticking things into orifices, jumping, poking, prodding, pulling and rough housing.A dog can't reason the way we can and has only one way to defend itself and that involves teeth! You can never trust any animal 100%, and if a kid stuck something into one of my orifices I'd be likely to bite too! :ohmy: Back to the sharks!

[SandyWhiting 0]

SandyWhiting wrote:

Im always present when they play with the dogs, not because I dont trust them but because they can get a little rough while they are playing.. As in he may get knocked over.

I agree Ranger. Im always present when the dogs and kids are playing..They are old enough to know now NOT to stir the dogs up or be cruel.. But the sad thing is some kids dont come off so lucky..Here is some piccs..

[SandyWhiting 0]

Crap again No More dog talk from me, back to topic

[Ranger 48]

[SandyWhiting 0]

Awwwwwwwwwwww the second one is so cute... NOT!!!!!!!!! :ohmy: :ohmy:

[statesquider 0]

I share opinions with most people on this topic, I feel that we are entering their territory and therefore we are responsible for our own safety. With everything we do we take risks, like riding a bike on the road. I've been hit a couple of times and have had too many close calls to count but I love riding so I wont stop. I now take as many precautions to make it as safe as I can when I ride, at the end of the day thats all you can do.I love spearfishing and snorkelling and have had a run in with a white once. Was about 3m long and just cruised past me between me and the rocks I had to get out on. After seeing one in the water you can't help but respect them more, they are a beautiful animal and to watch how effortlessly they move through the water is amazing.We just have to take every precaution we can and look out for our mates on the water and let nature do its thing :)Cheers

[ausea 4]

For those people who own smaller craft anywhere from 12-15 feet and having a 4-5 m GW come up to the boat you will have some thinking to do on what should I do now.Do I just sit and do nothing or do I get the anchor up and get out of here,It’s quite scarry.If it decides to taste the prop and gives a little shake,all sorts of things are going to enter your mind.One of the first things you’ll notice is that your undies feel warm.Don’t take things for granted as someone this year could easily go through this and think what are we doing letting them just roam around our local coast.The best idea that I’ve seen is this.Perth beaches will be lined with tracking stations able to detect tagged white pointer sharks for a project that could help protect swimmers and determine whether sharks stalk coastal areas after developing a taste for human flesh. The department and CSIRO researchers are installing 20 radio receivers, or “listening stations”, along patrolled beaches from Fremantle to Ocean Reef. Dr McAuley said the new satellite receivers could pinpoint a tagged shark within a minute or two so patrol authorities could be told quickly if white pointers were swimming near popular beaches. http://sharkattacksurvivors.com/shark_attack/viewtopic.php?t=1261

[moose 1]

People just for your information 99.9% of the shark sightings along the metro coast are Bronze Whalers. As a person that gets contacted every time a "shark" is spotted along the coast I am aware of only one white last summer that was closer than 1km from shore. I love the water and surf,dive, spearfish, sail, fish and boat all along our coast line and accept the risk that I am taking every time I enter the water. How would I feel if it were a family member probably angry and upset but would not blame the governmet for not doing any thing. I understand that human nature is such that we need to protect ourselves agenst such "vicious man eaters" but lets face it they only come up the Gulf to feed on the snapper that we all want to go and catch, so therfore are we not putting ourselves in a situation that may or may not end up with a white around the boat. I hope there is not another attack this summer but theres not a lot we can really do about it if there is.

[shane 0]

Some very good points of view have been raised and I don’t think there is or ever will be a right answer I have only seen on white so far last year and it was only around 3.5m but I could not get over the size of is stomach (girth) it was massiveIt hung around for around 20-30mins doing figure 8s at the back of the boat came within 6m of the back of the boat It never broke the surface and if it was a bit darker or more choppy I probably wouldn’t have see itEven thou I felt safe in the boat it still made the hair on the back of my neck stand up for a while (felt like was being sized up for Dinner) I will always use a bucket to wash my hands from now on Last year a mate’s uncle and his farther were fishing at night in a 5m tinny and a white hit his boat from underneath, It hit that hard they both fell over inside the boat, if you asked him he would say kill the lot of them but he was a little shook up over the subject (Again key factor at night and berley for snapper)I think if it was a dog, elephant or croc or anything else really, that was giving us a bit of trouble it would be put down or at least relocated Sharks maybe satellite tags are the go for ones that venture into the metro areas, But I don’t think they last long for some reason and the that they cover such a large area it’s probably a waste of time and effort When you look at how many people venture into the water every day From early morning swimmers at Brighton to kite surfers at Henley beach the odds are almost like wining the X lotto for a shark attack(Actually it not really like winning the X lotto one you would be jumping around with joy, I’m sure joy is a nice girl, and the other you would be looking for you legs!!, but you know what I mean)All things like shark nets for swimmers or shark shields are and will be to costly to implement and things like nets create more problems away After seeing one myself although it was awesome site, I really don’t wish to see another one for awhileAnd if there was a white or any shark that was attacking or harassing boats or people in general, I have no problem it being taken for some research I think like ausea said humans should come first (we do tend to down play the value of human life when it comes to sharks)But I still think prevention or more like self preservation is a must, shark shields do work

[RogerG 1]

A whale got caught up in a shark net on the Gold Coast over the week end and had to be cut free. Should we take ALL the whales out for stuffing up shark nets? Any MORON that takes his family out into open waters in a 12ft tinny deserves to become part of the food chain. I vote that we take out all D/heads who do not have the ability to think beyond their own agenda. Leave the GWs alone.RogerG

[pescados 1]

On another note, who would like to swim on a beach with a rotting whale carcass nearby ?Gory yes ** but ** sharks take care of that matter.or how would you like to be attacked by a shark with legs on land ? not on you say !well sharks live in the sea so if one enters their territory than beware.Humans have done more to exterminate animal species than vice versa alltho some human species would not be a great loss.Have look at orangutan diaries on Sun arvo on CH 10 when on.imho.

[chrisjc 0]

i think the bigger picture is that they are at the very top of the food chain, and if they are removed what will happen?i have slowed now but surfing the west coast south coast and yorkes was a big part of my life for fifteen or so years. never saw a white in the water. there was always a thought in the back of my mind every single time i started to paddle out about getting "taken" but it soon goes away when you realise most of the waves on the west coast are more deadly than the sharks.i have lost an aquaintance by white pointer attack on the same coast. wasnt a close mate but i knew him all the same and it tends to hit home hard when it happens that close to you. my mates and me knew exactly what we were getting into back then and we knew that it was a chance of happening albeit very very small chance we knew. thankfully nothing ever happened although we had a couple of times when we browned our shorts.[saw a 15ft plus white nail a seal feeding on fish. we padelled past the same seal twenty minutes earlier on our way in]weigh up the risk and make your own choice on weather to enter the water via swimming surfing or even boating but dont make them pay for it.youd be surprised how many reported attacks are actually big bronzys and not whites.shouldnt be killing them off to make us safer it just wouldnt work.if thats the attitude we should just kill all the venomous snakes aswell because they to are deadly. then we could ban all large dogs because some of them bite us.and those soccer mums driving big 4wds are deadly lets kill them off to.in my honest opinion, i think we should ban people dropping tons of berley in the water for days on end feeding them fish scraps and then jumping in a cage and then feeding them fish through the cage, tourist or doco maker ,i think this is simply putting it in their head that we are to be related with food.they are a very smart animal and should be respected and not culled. a mate of mine is a "shark wrangler" on the west coast, as an example, when a bronzy or blue shark finds a hole in the tuna pen they usualy have a chew then freak out when they cant find there way out and then start taking chunks out of every fish they can grab in the pen. which obviously cost lots of money to the tuna guys. when a white does the same thing it gets its fill and than remembers where it came in leaves and then simply hangs around the pen until it want to eat again.ive only heard it second hand, but if this is true they are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.sorry for the long post but to put it simply no we shouldnt kill them, if you dont want to risk you or your families lifes go to the local pool or go to the river for the weekend.