AuusieDave

Where are the groups that want to represent rec fishers?

They should be making sure every South Australian knows this and that PIRSA are trashing our economy giving all our resource to commercial fishers for $9/kg when as a rec fishing resource the same resource is worth ten times as much to the economy.

On 09/09/2018 at 3:35 PM, Bait Caster said:

Isnt that the whole reason for some of these new "organizations", all some have done is attempt to divide recreational fishers. Nothing to add to the discussion, agree with him or get either abuse or blocked.

And in the mean time the rec fishing industry can't be bothered defending itself, we can scream until we're blue in the face but we're only hobbyists but if the industry screamed they would have a much better chance of getting some cut through with gov.

Lets keep this on track guys, we're trying to improve representation of rec fishers not war between rec fishing organisations.

All this warring is just working against us.

Hi guys, sorry I haven't been able to get back to this, the shit has hit the fan at work and my internet activity at work is now being monitored and I usually only use the internet at work, it's fair enough I guess. Generally I have family commitments until about 9PM each night so it's hard to find time.

What I wanted to say is what we really need is a real Rec Fishing Peak Body that represents not just rec fishers but the rec fishing industry (tackle/bait/boat stores, caravan parks/hotels/motels/holiday house owners, regional towns (the pub, bakery, servo, supermarket, coffee shops). This rec fishing peak body should be independent of government but should be able to lobby the tourism and sports and rec departments for them to pressure PIRSA/Primary Industries department to take them in to consideration when deciding on fisheries matters or preferably a seat at the table in decision making.
What suprises me is that the rec fishing industry doesn't seem to be able organise itself to do this, they are the ones with the most to lose. I don't believe the government will make any economic considerations in favour of the rec fishing industry unless they have faces themselves, it is obvious that actual rec fishers can scream about economic return until the cows come home but we aren't the ones economically effected so it is ignored.

I think a new real rec fishing peak body is also needed as there is a lot of bad blood between the different groups, RecFishSA/SAFA/RecFishCentral, and neither will accept anything other than an equal place at the table, this could be achieved by placing the new real peak body and a neutral coordinator above them. I believe that all of these groups have the best interest of rec fishing at heart although compromises have been made in order to have a seat at the table to try and have at least some influence.

So what I see that we need is a new real rec fishing peak body that has two representatives.

One for rec fishers that liaises with groups like SAFA, RecFishSA, RecFishCentral, Northern Districts Sports Fishing Club, SAAFWA, etc., treats each group equally and each group gets equal representation for decision making. I think individual rec fishers should also be included here but there would have to be some type of weighting as SAAFWA for example represent many rec fishers.

Another representative for the rec fishing industry that liases with groups like tackle stores, boat stores, caravan parks, i.e. those that benefit financially from rec fishing. All groups would receive equal status which would also be equal status with the previously mentioned actual rec fishers.

The thing is that the more I think about this issue the amount of work explodes and who is going to do the work?

Each group/member would need some type of membership to allow them to log in to a website and vote for issue they want the peak body to represent them on, i.e. a democratic system.

The peak body can then represent rec fishers and the rec fishing industry both to the media and to lobby the government.

At the moment we have a system where hobby fishers are opposed to well funded union/association(business union) representation from commercial fishers and we don't stand a chance.

Just my thoughts guys.

Dave

1 hour ago, BarneyB said:

Our economic value to the state is actually far higher than that of the commercial sector.....

Yes, I'm certain that would be the case, that's why I think it is imperative that that the rec fishing industry is included in anything we do.

Sorry guys, we've had some urgent issues with some of our largest clients this week so I've been flat out all week at work.

It looks like you guys have put in some great work there RJ in terms of rec fishing representation for rec fishers.

I kind of think we need to be looking at making a real peak body for rec fishing and the rec fishing industry. I believe our position is undermined by the fact that the commercial sector is regarded as more important than rec fishing as they are an industry while we are just hobby fishers exercising our hobby and not really creating any economic value to the state. I believe we need a peak rec fishing body which represents rec fishers and fishing clubs but also the rec fishing industry, i.e. the bait/tackle/boat stores, caravan parks/motels/holiday house owners and regional business councils.

I'll try and find some time to knock up a bit of a diagram of how I believe it would be structured over the weekend.

I think we are at a critical time where if rec fishers stay divided rec fishing in this state will be dead but if we can unite and try to understand each others positions and compromises to work together we can ensure the future of rec fishing and hopefully improve it vastly.

I think the difference between our viewpoints is that I am commenting on what I believe a rec fishing peak body should be and I understand that you guys are talking about the reality of the current situation and the compromises that you have had to make just to have some skin in the game.

These compromises are why I don't think the new Rec Fishing Council will make any difference what-so-ever, the main problem is that RecFishSA is entrapped by PIRSA and PIRSA don't have the best interests of rec fishers as a priority. PIRSA have set up RecFishSA to deliberately be a toothless tiger and give rec fishers an impression only that they have some representation enabling PIRSA to work against the interests of rec fishing while saying that they are helping rec fishers.

Oversight of any rec fishing body needs to be separated from the Primary Industries portfolio as rec fishing is not a Primary Industry but a sports and rec industry with tourism having a giant stake.

I will say that PIRSA have done one good thing, they commissioned the study into Shark Shields proving that they are effective against even breaching GWS's, as a kayak fisher I appreciate this although they would have done it for commercial divers and not rec kayak fishers.

Do you guys really think that the commercial fishers unions like the MFA take fairness to rec fishing into consideration when lobbying for their members?

Did the commercial sector reps take the

18 hours ago, kon said:

"not one step back, comrades"

approach to KGW bag limits?

It is very concerning to hear that RecFishSA are required to be secretive about what happens in negotiations, what are PIRSA trying to hide?

A peak Rec Fishing representative body needs to mirror the fairness that the commercial sector shows rec fishers so that a happy compromise can be reached. If we are fair to them and they are not fair to us the result of a compromise will be unfair to rec fishers.

Three cheers to all volunteers that have tried to further the cause of rec fishing, I and I think many others are very grateful for your efforts.

On 18/08/2018 at 9:50 AM, brenton said:

well someones doing a shit job because plenty of fisheries are a shadow of their former selves,its all down to Pirsa then for allowing their demise?

                 cheers b

                                              

Yep, the best fisheries managers in the world.

On 18/08/2018 at 8:01 AM, kon said:

...

3. There is a difference between being "as firm as circumstances allow" and "absolutist-combative on principle" when it comes to representation. The latter, whilst all well and good in a sympathetic audience echo-chamber, is hardly an advisable approach to take (for the sake of professional image and credibility for a start) when dealing with the likes of government departments.... who are the ones who will make final determination regarding any rule changes in any case.

...

Here is where I disagree Kon.

Unfortunately we have to play the game of politics and we, or especially our representatives, need to exaggerate or case equally to what the MFA are, rec fishers are responsible for overfishing, pffft, lets attack those that take less than 5% of the fish, lets fiddle while Rome burns, this way we can come to a fair compromise, the politicians can save face by giving neither side exactly what they wanted but by giving both sides some of what they wanted.

An example of this is the KGW bag limits where the rec survey asked if we were willing to take a cut in the interests of sustainability, I and I believe most rec fishers checked yes and for that fairness we had a reduced bag limit while the users that take the majority of the KGW, the commercial sector, had no reduction, that's what being fair gets you, it gets you screwed over.

Unfortunately our representatives need to be a squeaky wheel as it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil not the one that is fair and not squeaky.

On 17/08/2018 at 4:02 PM, Wahoo said:

After reading all of the comments posted lately it seems to me that there's a perception that because things didn't go the way some people wanted them to then RecfishSA didn't fight on their behalf and just rolled over and let PIRSA do what they want. Were you there? Were you in the room during these negotiations? I was in the room at the bag & boat limit discussions and had to sign a confidentiality agreement to be there, as did everybody in the room. All I can say is that RFSA fought their arses off to prevent the KGW bag limit reduction as did I and just about everybody else that was present. PIRSA went ahead and reduced them anyway. 

The Libs have stated that RFSA will be part of the new recreational fishing council, personally, if I were part of RFSA I would be thinking long and hard about whether I wanted the continued grief and hand it all over for someone else to cop it all. 'Coz make no mistake, the new team will cop it just as much as the old team when things don't go our way, and there will be things that go against our collective wishes, that's the nature of the beast. Having just potentially burned my bridges with the above disclosure I may well not be accepted anyway were I to be dumb enough to put my hand up. Why dumb? because I'm too thin skinned to cop the online abuse when things go awry.

No offence to anybody is intended, if any is taken I apologize in advance.

Go for your lives, I won't be back online 'til next Wednesday. 

Cheers

Wahoo

I think you have hit the nail on it's head there Wahoo.

It's the secrecy that is bad, why is PIRSA so afraid of the truth if they are 'the best fisheries managers in the world'? What are they trying to hide?

Your post sums up everything that is wrong with RecFishSA. What we need is representation and that representation must be public and not behind closed doors. How can they lobby/fight for change in such a secretive arrangement? What we need is representation for rec fishers that is independent of PIRSA, are RecFishSA allowed to publicly lobby against PIRSA? How do they stand up for us when they are not allowed to stand up? Would RecFishSA be allowed to arrange a protest where we all take our boats in to North Terrace to fight a PIRSA decision?

What we really need is for RecFishSA to become part of either the Tourism or Sports and Recreation departments and be cut free of PIRSA so that they can fight for the beneficiaries of rec fishing (bait/boat/tackle stores, regional tourism operators and regional towns) against Primary Industries that don't care any more for these rec fishing beneficiaries than they did for Holdens workers.

Oh, and I'm in the IT business making software for the building industry so my only interest is rec fishing as a rec fisher.

On 17/08/2018 at 10:03 AM, rotare said:

Dave,

...

Once again you're implying that Jay R has some hidden agenda because his experience is different yours.  Why don't you just say you think he's lying and he's likely a commercial fisherman?  

If you're talking about acting like the unions have in Australia, all the best with that approach as history shows how well that worked for most longer term.

...

Cheers.   

Fair call about jay Rotare, I don't know him and I'm just making an assumption as he uses the same rhetoric as the commercial fishers. Sorry jay

Unfortunately as citizens and not businesses we don't have the money to compete in a electoral donations/bribery war with commercial fishers so we need to use people power to force the government to listen to us, the only way to do this is to take to the streets, it's exactly the same as the plight of workers where they can't afford to play the corruption game so need to use democracy and harness people power. It's been reported that the MFA donated $300K to the parties in the last election, how do we compete without taking to the streets?

Hi Jay,

7 hours ago, Jay R said:

...

I don’t have an affiliation with any of these groups, I just don’t like seeing people get mislead with blanket statements and fake news.

...

Do you have any affiliation to any other groups that might have a stake? Your responses seem familiar, like I've heard them before?

7 hours ago, Jay R said:

...

I see a lot of hypocrisy in these topics, and people taking the  kudos for stuff they haven’t done, and counting chickens well before they’ve hatched.

Ultimately , the egg ends up on their face and like many before them, they fade away, never to be seen again.

...

I tend to agree with you there about jumping the gun, in reality nothing has changed... yet. There's still no representation of rec fishers.

7 hours ago, Jay R said:

...

As a side note, neither SAFA or RecfishcENTRAL where around when they were introduced, all FistnSA did was have a few loud mouth’s at a meeting and print some bumper stickers..

...

If you're so knowledgable about the history of the Marine Parks issue you should also know that SAFA and RecFishCentral were created in response to the betrayal felt from recFishSA at the time.

7 hours ago, Jay R said:

...

Commercials taking Crabs before xmas, that’s an easy one, money makes the world goes around, and just like prawns and Snapper, Australians like to eat seafood on Xmas day, not all of them have the privilege to own a boat nor be good enough to catch them, so they must buy.

...

So you agree with robbing the South Australian economy of economic activity as the recs taking their boats out to get their own crabs has a significantly higher economic return than just selling the crabs to interstate and overseas markets. If you feel this passionate about local South Australian locals that can't get their own crabs do you then support a ban on any exports of these crabs to interstate and overseas markets? It'd be great all South Aussies would have fresh cheap quality seafood, at the current prices they can only afford crappy Mekong Delta fish.

7 hours ago, Jay R said:

...

No problem with 10KG’s/ person, again, 10 fish provides my family of 4 with a good nights feed.

...

There's the issue right there, you might be able to fish multiple times a week but most rec fishers are lucky to get on the water once a month so one feed is not really enough, this needs to be doubled.

7 hours ago, Jay R said:

...

No problem with SBT getting cut to 1 /person, a 13kg Tuna will feed my family for months, if for whatever reason I wanted more, I’d just go out again and keep another. Every summer we see lots of fish left to rot in bins and charter operators being left with excess fish cos customers kept their limit without needing to.

...

But the average size of a SA SBT is 8 to 10kg, even down the South East. an 8kg SBT will give you about 4.5kg of meat, how much a kilo is that one fish once you tow your boat to the launch and do the massive k's to access the fish? $100/kg

I agree that no-one needs two barrels, a split limit like Snapper is best.

7 hours ago, Jay R said:

...

Not a single one of my fisher friends have trouble getting fish, actually the opposite, as boats get bigger, equipment gets better and social networking improves, we find fishing easier every year.

...

Come on mate, are you serious?

Maybe it's that the people you socialise with are not actually rec fishers, the fishermen with better boats and technology are the commercial fishermen, if that's the angle you're coming from, yes you would of course be very happy with the non-representation that RecFishSA provides us.

7 hours ago, Jay R said:

...

 I’ve travelled the world, fished in many places and am well aware that we have it very good in Australia.

But not for a second do I think we should just take it for granted and not care about our future, I just don’t think chest beating on the internet or resorting to 80’s style Painters and Dockers is the right way .

I'm glad you have travelled the world and seen what is at stake if we can't get any decent fisheries management, PIRSA's 'optimal utilisation' method of destroying a fishery and then waiting decades for it to recover is extremelly dangerous.

Painters and Dockers style representation is exactly what we're missing, there is absolutely no representation of rec fishers, we should be parking all our fishing cars/boats in North Terrace, you know that thing called democracy French farmer style.

Unfortunatelly RecFishSA doesn't represent rec fishers to PIRSA they represent PIRSA to rec fishers and this is why they have to go as they are supposed to be representing the rec fishers to PIRSA.

Dave

6 hours ago, mrfish said:

Hi Aussie Dave,

Love your posts this year so please don't take this as an attack on your views which I believe you are more than entitled to have. But I would like to step in here just to highlight that not all rec fishers fully support the ideals of SAFA etc.

While I don't think SA has the optimal rec fishing representation currently I am very cautious about supporting rec fishing bodies like SAFA. My caution comes from some of the material I read from their site which is clearly wrong or demonstrates a lack of ecological understanding.

A bit about me, I am not aligned with any particular rec fishing body - I follow all of them as I believe they are united in the overarching goal to make rec fishing better and fairer, so in that they all have my support. I am a keen recfisherman since forever, I also have a PhD in Aquatic ecology and spend a great deal of my time learning about fish biology/physiology and about our aquatic ecosystems.

So in saying this I do support recfish SA's stance on marine parks and am glad we have them - whether they are in the correct places is outside the scope of this post to debate so let’s just leave that there.

I am happy with the 20 blue crab limit for recs – I am not happy about the pro situation

I do not support the commercial export of KGW (who can afford to buy local whiting??) and think the bag limit for recs is very low. But I am happy to cop it on the chin if it means stock replenishment.

I was not fussed by the recent cuts to rec bag limits and think that some are still way too high. Boats limits of 30 for flathead (we don’t even have a flathead fishery in SA) and bream are ridiculous and show a total lack of knowledge about rec fishing from PIRSA (imagine we all went and ripped 30 big bream out of the Port on a weekly basis). The population of people keeps growing therefore the bag and boat limits can only keep decreasing if we are to remain sustainable. More thought needs to be given towards the sustainability of commercial fisheries given the small percentage of people these industries represent when compared to the increase in general population and the economic contributions rec fishers make. In that I do agree with SAFA as I believe I have read similar on their site before.

So that’s all from me I hope people read this in the respectful tone it was intended. Keep fighting the good fight. We’ll get there eventually.

Peace

mrfish

Hi mrfish,

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

In relation to SAFA's science, they may be misinterpreting some of the data but from what I see PIRSA/RecFishSA just make up the data they want to support what they want, complete privatisation of the public resource that is our salt-water fishery. I assume you agree that PIRSA/RecFishSA's science is equally if not more flawed. See I would have said that reducing the rec bag limits while increasing the commercial take for a species would be demonstrating a massive lack of ecological understanding, surely you agree with this? As a Doctor of Aquatic Ecology you would understand that unless the total amount harvested is decreased it is a reduction in sustainability which seems to be what PIRSA believes to be an increase in sustainability, gotta let those grandkids catch a fish...

In relation to the Marine Parks, I too agree with the principle, what I believe was a massive act of bastardry was asking all the recs where they fish and locking up those spots, this is a very bad approach, I would have thought this should have been a scientifically based, i.e. Marine Biologists/Aquatic Ecologists study the fish and state where a park would do most good. I think this is why so many people are against them. Personally it is only the one at Port Augusta that bothers me as it's taken my only chance at catching a SA Dolphin Fish away from me.

I think the previous points lead into the next point on bag limits, I only have to feed my father and myself so the bag limits are fine for me, but many rec fishers have a lot more mouths to feed than me. The point about bag limits is two fold, firstly the survey asked if we rec fishers are willing to have lower bag limits if it improves sustainability (assumed of the fishery), most rec fishers including me said yes but well, we all know what happened rec fishing bags were slashed and the pro's got extra quota resulting in a greater number of fish harvested resulting in a less sustainable fishery while being told it's to make it more sustainable. Convoluted, yes, but this is how PIRSA and RecFishSA operate, by betrayal. The second point only really relates to SBT's at the moment and that is 'who would tow their 20 foot boat with their big 4X4 down to Cape Jervis or Encounter Bay, motor the 90kms out to the Pages only to catch one 8kg SBT?' (anyone know the cost of this operation?), a split limit like we have with Snapper would work fine, 1 > 25kg or 2 < 25kg. But hang on we're not talking about the actual limits, we're talking about the representation we are getting which seems to be none.

I agree 100% about the export of prime species to interstate and overseas markets, the commercial sector, if they are genuine about wanting to put fresh fish on the plates of locals, would have to support this export ban. This would also force the price down and make local fresh fish an option for local South Australians again also helping the commercial sector to fulfill their desire to feed the locals. I suspect they aren't genuine about this and only say it to throw some smoke in front of the mirror.

I also agree that something will have to give with larger populations but hey, we're stagnant SA that isn't growing in population so the increased demand on the fishery is only due to better technologies and techniques utilised by the commercial sector. The economic value of the resource is far greater from rec fishing so some rec fishers may have to go the way of Holdens workers as they can't generate the optimum economic benefit for the state.

This is a bit side-tracked though, the question is are we being represented properly? No

Peace out dude and thanks for your contribution.

Dave

On 13/08/2018 at 2:00 PM, Jay R said:

... Just doing a quote so you get a notification.

Hi Jay,

I notice that you seem to be very anti SAFA/RecFishCentral, is this because you are happy with the status quo?

I'm assuming as this is a rec fishing site that you are here as a rec fisher, do you believe RecFishSA has and is doing a good job of representing rec fishers?

Were you happy with RecFishSA's representation in the following issues;

• Marine Parks.
• Blue Swimmer Crab bag limits.
• Blue Swimmer Crab commercial season opening at the beginning of December just to make sure there was no metro crabs left by Christmas for recs.
• KGW bag and possession limits.
• The amount of noise they are currently making RE. cutting the Southern Bluefin Tuna bag in half.

I'm interested if you feel RecFishSA represented you strongly enough on the above issues?

A bit about myself, I'm not aligned with SAFA or RecFishCentral, I'm just a passionate Rec Fisher and believe me I hold them to account too (check the dark side), I have no allegiance to SAFA, RecFishCentral or RecFishSA.

I think SAFA and RecFishCentral at least have whats best for rec fishers in mind in what they are doing, I've been scrutinising them for about 18 months now and have not seen them put a foot out of place. I disagree with their assumption that because they did a deal with the Libs the Libs are going to do anything about the peoples resource being privatised and it all being moved to a pro resource, I believe that is against Liberal ideology but they are confident that they have a deal with government so until such time as we have a Rec Fishing Council that fails to make a difference or not I'm reserving my judgement.

RecFishSA, well, they have proven to be unable to represent rec fishers on the above issues, I've talked to Danny Simpson and given him the benefit of the doubt as these could be reflective of previous personnel of RecFishSA and asked him to prove to me that RecFishSA under him is better but the crickets I'm hearing over the SBT issue seems to be giving me the answer.

So we have a situation of no representation under RecFishSA or to try something different. A wise man once said that continuing to do the same thing expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity, are we insane?

Dave

Yeah, RecfishSA had the discussion on licenses a couple of weeks ago on facebook and the outcome was that it was a good idea for freshwater but a bad idea for salt water as there is no intentions to stock salt water species, buy back used licenses (it's pointless to buy back latent licenses as they are not utilised), introduce TACCs or for PIRSA to do anything to change their established practice of continually taking from the recs to give to the pros (i.e. the SBT issue at the moment, KGW, Blue Swimmer Crabs).

I think the SBT issue shows that we are likely to be worse off than we were before. No final decisions have been made on this issue so I live in hope that the government will stand up for the myriad of small businesses that benefit from rec fishing as opposed to a dozen or so tuna barons. I hope they prove me wrong and do the right thing by all South Australians and not just a few that donated $320K to their election campaign.

I think all is not what was expected, the new Rec Fishing Rep needs to be approved by PIRSA to ensure they will just rubber stamp whatever PIRSA wants and the SBT issue will show the way the new government will handle rec fishing issues.

I hope I'm wrong but at the moment it seems we have jumped from the fat into the fire, come on Tim, prove me wrong.

Dave

A few of the Victorian guys that I meet up with at Portland chasing SBT's often go to Lake Mullen-Berri and get stuck into those Chinook Salmon, they reckon they are great fun to catch and give them something worthwhile to chase on the way home when there's no SBT.

I haven't tried much this year but I've got a few for liveys mainly around the Port River estuary in various places, I did get some good sized ones a few months ago coming past the Outer Harbour seal colony, one was big enough to break the hook on my double clutch and get away.

I bought one at SportsFishingScene a few weeks ago and they had most colours.

Well done Kuerschie, that's a bumper year so far.

For me it's more just targets, this year I got my yak XOS snapper and last year a yak SBT but I'm still chasing that kingfish, metre mully and 30kg SBT, must all be yak caught to. I've been held back the last couple of months with a dodgy shoulder, the doctor suggested it might be bursitis and sent me for scans, it'd be great to get it sorted so I can start enjoying my fishing again.

Dave

Good luck in the new job Southie.

It's a shame we need to chose between a job we love doing and a job that will pay all the bills but that's life.

It'll give you your weekends though and allow you to fish more which is a very good thing.

Hi Marten,

I have two set ups for these fish, for casting plastics/jigs I have a 7 foot 8-12kg rod with a Penn Slammer (560 I think) and for trolling I have a 6 foot Triton Beastmaster 8-12kg rod and a TLD 20. On a kayak I think a 8-12kg rod is heaps, I'm not sure I'd even be likely to put that much pressure on a fish.

The guys at Sportfishing Scene will be able to help you out, they are a great bunch of guys with heaps of knowledge to share. I buy all my gear there.

Dave

On 3/19/2018 at 12:34 PM, Dangerous said:

With the election of the Liberals does it mean there is no more RecFish SA?

Not looking for a heated debate about what is happening, just a factual answer to my question.

According to the policy above, no, RecfishSA are to be part of the new body.

"We will establish a new body for recreational fishers, including representatives of Recfish SA, ...."

Just to make sure we're talking the truth not assumptions.

Wow, that's so organised Kelvin, I feel bad about my pile of gear on my dining table now.

Looks like a great plan SnapperHead,

I reckon they'll work a treat, I've heard about some yakkers successfully doing the same thing for snapper and mullies.

That's one of my favourite fishing shows too mate, snapper, kingfish, kingfish, snapper, all great species to target.

Dave