LICENCE OR NO LICENCE!!!!

[4loveoffishing 0]

THIS IS A FOLLOW ON TO THE LOCAL WERE CAN I FISH(TORRENS/GORGE RD) SITE I REPLIED TO why cant we have a licence (or if it is happening let me no).i believe if we had a system we could create a sustianable recreational fishing enviroment second to none. why cant this happen if it was to happen i believe it could almost be a tourist attraction(not that it is not all ready) of local land based fresh/salt water fishing. imagine fresh water lakes/creeks stocked due to funding, easing of local salt water land based, an the flow on affect in country areas how can it not be a bad thing i write this as a novice but slightly educated fisher man not cliaming to be a expert but why cant we band together to get this right i love fishing an i would love my boy to enjoy it to if we dont become sustianable(let alone every thing else in life not to sound like a hippy but its true!)it wont last for ever hay thats my piece we have some of the best placest in the world in our state an our goverment does f### all in my mind to preserve an enjoy it we are one off the best states ive been to im so proud to call sa home im a truck driver an have been pretty well every were on a highyway so sa all the way (I NO I DRIVE A TRUCK AN I PRACTICE ENVIROMENTAL DAMAGE REDUCTION WERE I CAN BUT I HAVE TO MAKE A LIVING MAYBE THATS THE BALANCE OF LIFE AN ENVIROMENT WEALTH AN DESTRUCTION OR JUST PURE MONEY FULLSTOP DOES IT MAKE THE WORLD GO ROUND OR COMMODITIES?????????)THATS ALL CHEERS 4LOVEOFFISHING

[4loveoffishing 0]

p.s dont want it to sound like a rant more like a dream that i believe is possible neither did i want to sound like a hippy apologise if i offend any onefood for thought i say an if it get a disscussion it worth it i say

[spog777 1]

In theory a licensing scheme that supports recreational fishing would be fine-in reality "yeah right". :sick: It would be great to see the money used for sustainability, well repaired jetties, good boat ramps, freshwater fishing care, etc but it wouldnt happen. Like the road tax it wouldnt be sent to what it was designed for but shuffled off into what govts deem "more important/appropriate issues"Dont worry 4loveoffishing you didnt appear to be ranting just giving an opinion-which is still acceptable in this country-and free :evil:

[Ranger 48]

Just my own personal opinion which I've aired many times!Do other states with fishing licenses have sustainable recreational fishing environments second to none?As we are not in other states which have great systems of rivers, lakes and impoundments, can you also convince SA Water and private land holders to allow access to fishos to actually get at fishable waters impoundments and dams, or will we be paying to fish for carp in the River Murray when there's enough water in it?Also, will I then be paying for a license to restock freshwater species for the benefit of freshwater fishermen, when I only fish in the salt........or instead, what IS in it for me, when I'm already paying a ramp fee, boating license, registration, insurance, fuel excise, GST and a Save the River Murray Levy?What comes after the fishing license? Anti-pollution levies, revegetation levies, water buyback schemes, filtration tax, save the fish from fungus fund, carp removal tax, and all the while we have the greens pushing to put an end to recreational fishing, to close off areas to us, and to stop us persuing our sport.Under this so called "user pays system" will they then institute a license to use beaches, a license to visit parklands, a license to............Sorry, I don't think it's gonna be the magic bullet others think it is, I don't believe it will be applied and instituted to our best advantage, and I firmly believe I'm already paying more than my fair share of taxes, levies, excises, fees and licenses for the right to fish.I've been shafted by politicians way to many times to ever consider ASKING them to tax me again, and just keep in mind, if it turns out not to be the fishing nirvana you all expect, with your license funds being used for other purposes, your wishes not being fulfilled, or your voices not being heard, you cant then tell them you've changed your mind and you don't want this license/tax anymore!I've said this way too many times already, but I'll say it again. The government made me a promise! They told me that if I pay a goods and services tax on everything I purchase and everything I use, there would be no other taxes, fees or levies. I stood by my end of the bargain, yet here I am faced with income tax, capital gains tax, fuel excise, save the murray levy, emergency services levy, proposed carbon emission tax, and now a license to go fishing! I pay a boat operators license, boat registration, boat insurance, trailer registration, trailer insurance, drivers license, car registration, car insurance, GST on the purchase of my car, GST on the purchase of my boat, GST on fuel, fuel excise, GST on mechanical repairs, GST on tackle, GST on bait, ramp fees, boat club fees, save the murray levy, GST on my caravan, caravan registration, caravan insurance, stamp duty on all my registrations and insurances........How many more times should I pay and how many more licenses, fees, taxes, levies and charges are actually required just to go fishing?I get taxed on my money when I earn it, I get taxed on my money when I spend it, I get taxed on my money when I put it into a super fund, I get taxed on my money if I withdraw it from my super fund, If I save money I'm taxed on it, and I have to pay an accountant to work out how much tax I must pay on my earnings each year!Surely after all this, they can leave just a little of my money for ME! After all, I'm the one who's working bl**dy hard to earn it, and we are already one of the highest taxed countries on the planet!If, I'm gonna be taxed to fish now under a "user pays system" then fine! Drop the GST which was promised to replace all other payments, and instead I'll go with the user pays system, but you aint getting both from me, and that is certainly not what was promised!As Paul Hogan himself said, we are happy to pay a little tax, but they've had their share now, and they're just getting greedy! Enough is enough!

[tonyb 1,017]

I don't remember which famous personality said it but I do remember the message!Two things are a certainty in life, DEATH AND TAXES!My take, what's one more imposition here or there if there's even a remote possibility of an improvement in the recreational fisher persons lot??Positive or Negative? Is the glass half empty or half full?My choice is obvious!Regards, Tony.

[Ranger 48]

I don't remember which famous personality said it but I do remember the message!Two things are a certainty in life' date=' DEATH AND TAXES![/quote']It was an American politician, Benjamin Franklin. Here's a few other quotes of his which may also be appropriate here:A penny saved is a penny earned. Beware of little expenses. A small leak will sink a great ship. Those who govern, having much business on their hands, do not generally like to take the trouble of considering and carrying into execution new projects. The best public measures are therefore seldom adopted from previous wisdom, but forced by the occasion. Distrust and caution are the parents of security. The strictest law sometimes becomes the severest injustice. To Follow by faith alone is to follow blindly. When in doubt, don't. Where liberty is, there is my country.Where sense is wanting, everything is wanting.

[urhookedfish 12]

You know I was sitting on the fence until I heard Rangers response, and its funny as Im about to do a course in which is about being optomistic and seeing the world as generally a glass is half full type place, but Ranger is right. We are hit in the hip pocket on everything and there are absolutely no guaruntees of how they would spend the money, so Im now fully against the RFL.Especially with the way the last government was formed. Basically theyve shown that with mining taxes etc, even they dont know how to condone themselves or have any confidence in implementing things properly.The current government and the introduction of an RFL would be a joke at this point in time if you asked me.Enough is enough...I reckon.We are getting slugged from every angle.Im almost content after many years of having to poach the ressies and resolved to them never being opened up.I think I would rather things stay as they are than risk paying for nothing.I would want a good list of actions that would be taken with the funds before giving it the go-ahead.I think we deserve to have a deal offered. Ie you pay xxx dollars and we will offer this.Not introduce it and then make up the rules from there. Im in finance and I would never sign up for something until all the conditions are outlined first. So until this is done, I will remain against it.

[Moggy23 625]

I bought my first boat back in 95 and the Rego was $25.00, then the Gov. added the $25.00 Facilities Levy, thats fine, it will help improve the boat ramps. :woohoo: Now I pay $129 plus $69 levy, now thats a lot of money going into Gov. coffers since 95.Every time I fill the boat is about $34 of the $80 that I pay goes the gov. so in a year they get about $400 of me for fuel.Then as Ranger stated, you have the GST component on every thing else I get.Bring in a RFL, then up goes the licence every year and that goes for boat licence too, this were I don't trust the Gov. anymore. The State Bank always comes mind.The only thing I heard so far is the possession limit, so extra cost on boat rego and levy should look after that.May be there's more in the pipeline that I haven't heard of, time will tell.Cheers Moggy

[tonyb 1,017]

I don't remember which famous personality said it but I do remember the message!Two things are a certainty in life' date=' DEATH AND TAXES![/quote']It was an American politician' date=' Benjamin Franklin. Here's a few other quotes of his which may also be appropriate here:A penny saved is a penny earned. Beware of little expenses. A small leak will sink a great ship. Those who govern, having much business on their hands, do not generally like to take the trouble of considering and carrying into execution new projects. The best public measures are therefore seldom adopted from previous wisdom, but forced by the occasion. Distrust and caution are the parents of security. The strictest law sometimes becomes the severest injustice. To Follow by faith alone is to follow blindly. When in doubt, don't. Where liberty is, there is my country.Where sense is wanting, everything is wanting.[/quote']GEEZ Ranger, you're a dangerous man to cross swords with :laugh: :laugh:You don't play fair at all In future I'll leave the quoting to Mr Franklin

[kon 300]

Ranger, tonyb...WTF?I`m not getting into that discourse, you dudes are way too erudite for this little black duck.BTW people, the Vic RFL was expanded from fresh to salt water for all the right reasons - I have stated previously that SA don`t necessarily equal Vic, however if the same contextual approach is applied then an RFL is a means to an end.And, to carry on the theme of truism trumpeting..."Nothing should ever become too big to fail""Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it"

[tonyb 1,017]

Solid GOLD Kon, Let's all start a brand new literary quotation Board on S&H Think of the hours we could peacefully while away while thinking up some more B/S to put on S&H :laugh:PS Apologies for side tracking the serious nature of this post but we've gotta have a giggle now and again even if it's just to keep us sane

[Ranger 48]

GEEZ Ranger' date=' you're a dangerous man to cross swords with :laugh: :laugh:You don't play fair at all In future I'll leave the quoting to Mr Franklin [/quote']I'm the king of mass-debating! I'm sure you're quite capable of handling yourself, and you know how to debate a topic sensibly, getting your view across without losing the plot, getting abusive or ranting! Here's a few quotes from various personalities which are totally of topic, but which ya might also like:The least experienced fisherman always catches the biggest fish - AnonThe worse your line is tangled the more fish the man beside you will catch - AnonFishing wont make you truthful, but it will make you happy - AnonFishes live in the sea as men do a-land; The great ones eat up the little ones - William ShakespeareYou wont find one fish in a million that has the sense to come in when it rains - Robert BenchleyThe books all say that Baracuda rarely eat people, but very few Barracuda can read - Dave BarryIf you think fly fishermen are unusual, talk to a mushroom hunter sometime- John GierachFishing gives you a sense of where you fit in the scheme of things-your place in the universe...I mean here I am, one small guy with a fishing pole in this beach, and out there in the blue expanse of oceans are these hundreds of millions of fish.....laughing at me - A J P TaylorThe two best times to fish are when it's rainin and when it aint - Patrick F McManusI don't know exactly what fly fishing teaches us, but I think it's something we need to know - John GierachThe fishing was good - It's the catching that was poor - A K BestWe were "catching fish" rather than "getting one now and then". If you are not a fisherman I can't begin to explain the importance of that distinction - John GierachAll you need to be a fisherman is patience and a worm - Herb ShrinerFishing seems to be the favourite form of loafing - Edgar Watson HoweCanst thou draw out leviathan with a hook? - Old Testament; Job XLI, 1

[kon 300]

Just before on-thread sanity returns...more quotes...http://www.quotegarden.com/fishing.html I particularly like "The gods do not deduct from man`s allotted span the hours spent in fishing"

[4loveoffishing 0]

thanks for some of the replys even if idi get a little side tracked there is a obviuos distrust with goverment(dont blame you)but if we didnt have them where would we be?the licence would be for both fresh and salt water i know some people only fish salt water so all i was trying to say is if there was more places to fish would there not be more relief on the heavy over fished spots we have now as for money an taxes well no money is ever gunna go were it should becuase ones opinion is different to anothers as for gst well do we not have one of the strongest economys in the modern world an is it not one of the lowest gst levels in the world im no financial man so please tell me if im wrong but over all does change of some description have to happen for us to all enjoy recreational fishing for many genarations to come cheers 4 love of fishing

[Ranger 48]

but over all does change of some description have to happen for us to all enjoy recreational fishing for many genarations to come

YES!!!And I believe a good starting point would be Total Allowable Catch limits for professional fishermen,and readdressing bag and size limits, along with closed seasons for ALL users.The next step would be to address water pollutants, maybe water catchment areas instead of allowing nutrient rich and polluted stormwater to flow into our waterways.Aquaculture and farming is another area for consideration and possible expansion.None of this requires a recreational fishing license, and all of it is imperative if we are to continue fishing.Aren't we also committed to getting a massive system of 19 marine parks with no go and no fishing zones to take the pressure off, preserve habitats and provide sanctuaries for fish?As for sustainability, that's a big topic at the moment the world over, as it's impossible to sustain anything at the current rate of usage. Are you aware that we would need 4.5 of our current planets to become sustainable at the current Australian usage per capita, and Australia is currently ranked 8th highest in the world for resource usage?The world is over populated, we are using all resources at a rate higher than can be sustained, and we are polluting what's left, as species disappear daily at an alarming rate. A recreational fishing license will not solve this problem.As for the GST, wasn't that spouted as an ingenious "user pays system" when it was planned an introduced, where those using will be the ones taxed? Yet it now appears, that user pays system will be bolstered by the introduction of yet another "user pays" system (fishing license) added on top. Doesn't that mean we are then paying twice for the same benefit? Effectively the government double dipping yet again!

[4loveoffishing 0]

good points i no that sustianabilty is a contentios issue with the way we use and abuse as humans but if we dont try to achieve some form of sustianability we are going to be a dying race we need change an the only way that happens is if people talk about it debate it an lobby it there definetly needs to be change to the commercial side of our fishries industry for sure as for the pollutant side of things dont we have some of the best wetlands filtration around(i,e mawson lakes an surronding wetlands)or is that more water harvestingas for taxes mate if we didnt have them the next time you go for a drive or go to hospital sit back an think wat if i was in africa or some third world country were in some countrys there is huge tax an no services so i think we do all right an some times we need to look at some less fortunate countrys to appreciate what we got so were would we be with out tax it will be here for ever we may not like it but we would not be such a lucky country if it wasnt for the way our goverment has built this lucky country over our short history im by no means a goverment lover but they are there for a purpose(sometimes the wrong one)wouldnt a licence be some way of gianing more evindence an reaserch into recreational fishing if its that bad why have other states implementing new and better facilities stocking an new fishing spots(salt water reefs)cheers 4loveoffishing

[Guest B@K]

Interesting to note how WA and NT Legislation approaches rec. fishing.Both states have made a clear distinction between 'Daily Bag Limits' and 'Personal Possession'WA muddies the water a tad when it talks about whole fish and fillets but has 'two days bag limit' in 'personal possession'NT simply states an allowbable maximum of 30 fish in 'personal possession'. It has a a little more detail than that referring to endangered species.So, if managing a sustainable fishery is the priority, is a definitive Legislated 'personal possession' limit (daily bag limit remains) more, transparent, effective and enforcable than a RFL?

[Moggy23 625]

As Ranger stated, look at the real issues of deminishing fish stocks.One issue that I have a problem with is the prawn trawlers, that drag everything up in their nets and only can keep the prawns and throw everything else back, mostly dead.If I am wrong can someone correctly answer this.

[Guest B@K]

Oops, yeah should have included subject to everything Ranger said

[kon 300]

So' date=' if managing a sustainable fishery is the priority, is a definitive Legislated 'personal possession' limit (daily bag limit remains) more, transparent, effective and enforcable than a RFL?[/quote']B@K, I`ll certainly go with more transparent and effective. However "enforceability" is probably irrelevant, ie "show me your bucket vs show me your RFL". In my opinion a RFL is only a worthwhile management tool in terms of finessing the overall situation...if it is done properly...Speaking in absolute terms, you are correct with your rhetorical question! But then the argument starts in relation to the current need(?) in SA of layering possession limits over the top of bag limits...I think you are aware of my thoughts on that matter. :dry:

[Guest boys day out]

As Ranger stated' date=' look at the real issues of deminishing fish stocks.One issue that I have a problem with is the prawn trawlers, that drag everything up in their nets and only can keep the prawns and throw everything else back, mostly dead.If I am wrong can someone correctly answer this. [/quote']Bruce Harris Brought this very issue up many years ago the outcome ? :blink:

[kon 300]

As Ranger stated' date=' look at the real issues of deminishing fish stocks.One issue that I have a problem with is the prawn trawlers, that drag everything up in their nets and only can keep the prawns and throw everything else back, mostly dead.If I am wrong can someone correctly answer this. [/quote']Moggy, you better get on to the ABARE dudes if we`re actually identifying issues locally, they say there`s no problem;Wednesday, 13 October 2010Nothing fishy about local fisheries managementCoalition spokesperson for Fisheries Senator Richard Colbeck today met with representatives from the New South Wales seafood industry at the Sydney Fish Markets (SFM) to discuss key issues relating to the sector.High on the agenda was the sustainability of Australia's fisheries and the welcome improvement of the health of these fisheries as demonstrated by the Fishery Status Report 2009 recently released by the Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics' (ABARE).According to the report, since 2004 the percentage of healthy fish stocks ('not overfished') has increased from 27% to 58%. The report also states that 72.3% of Australia's fish stocks are not subject to overfishing. These figures are matched by a decline in the number of 'overfished' or 'uncertain' fish stocks.Senator Colbeck said of major concern to industry representatives was the continued misrepresentation of fisheries by some in the environment movement who continually peddled a myth of doom across our seas."The international recognition of the high quality of Australia's fisheries management is regularly and studiously ignored by some groups who obviously have an interest in maintaining a negative image of the Australian seafood industry," Senator Colbeck said.Then again, of course, there`s the concept of "lies, damned lies and statistics", eg is this with reference to "deep sea" only?...and one would have to work on the presumption that ABARE have no vested interest in the matter?

[savage480 1]

My 2 cents:The issue I have is all the money currently paid, as far as taxes to go fishing (petrol, registration, gst, etc etc), goes to the government. They then decide how to what to spend it on. Currently almost none of this goes towards fishing / reaserch etc. Most money that goes to support fisheries comes directly from commercial licence fees, ie user pays. Which is also why they are listened to.I am scepticle to think that the little money gained from a rec licence, in relative terms, will improve recreational fishing.Currently the Govt puts in a mesley couple of million a year. I would think this would also be about the maximum that a rec licence would make. This would see the Govt then reduce their funding altogether, making Fisheries completely cost recovered and wouldn't cost them anything, which is what they want.Until the Govt gets serious and understands the TRUE value and importance of fish as a whole industry and gives Fisheries a decent amount of funding, any improvements will be insignificant.

[Guest boys day out]

As Ranger stated' date=' look at the real issues of deminishing fish stocks.One issue that I have a problem with is the prawn trawlers' date=' that drag everything up in their nets and only can keep the prawns and throw everything else back, mostly dead.If I am wrong can someone correctly answer this. [/quote'']Bruce Harris Brought this very issue up many years ago the outcome ? :blink:

ooopps his issue was all the damage to the sea floor eg grasses mussel beds and so on :( :(

[Moggy23 625]

I just dug one of the late Bruce Harris's books out of the library and he stated that a single rig trawler was averaging 6 kg of prawns a minute and were down to less than 400 grams in 1988Also the ban of power netting in some areas has brought fish stocks back, also 1988.

[4loveoffishing 0]

cheers heaps guys sorry if ive offended any one:blush: im only a amutuer an trying to get an opinion on a subject that me an a mate were talking about an feel like i stuck a stick in a be hive :ohmy: great to see some reel passion an great understanding of our great marine enviroment ive definetley learnt some great key factors to this argument an learnt that not all is as black an white as it seemscheers guysthanks 4loveoffishing

[tonyb 1,017]

My 2 cents:Until the Govt gets serious and understands the TRUE value and importance of fish as a whole industry and gives Fisheries a decent amount of funding' date=' any improvements will be insignificant.[/quote']WOW, Bl**dy WOW!! What a man savage480!!!!You have encapsulated this entire argument in one sentence! I'm very impressed!Since my recent involvement with SARFAC, the major message which has hit me so squarely all this time is the massive indifference from our Government to SARFAC's input over some 17 years of them banging on closed doors!!!!!With the fresh wind blowing through Government corridors, we can now all have new hope and work towards a future for recreational fishers and, of course, there will be a financial and intellectual cost. A small price in my opinion!You get nothing for nothing in this world. Let's be positive and embrace the change that we all want for our fishery and collectively work towards it!

[4loveoffishing 0]

ONLY A AMUTUER, BUT IF SOME ONE STARTED A FACE BOOK PAGE OR SOME FORM OF MIAN STREAM NET USAGE. COULD WE NOT BRING THIS MATTER, AS A WHOLE TO THE PUPLIC OF STH AUSTRALIA, AN FINNALLY GET A MASS DEBATE ON A ISSUE THAT FROM WHAT I CAN GATHER ON HERE IS A HOT TOPIC GET PUPLIC ATTENTION AN THEY MIGHT JUST START TO LISTEN (OR PAY A LITTLE MORE MONEY ARE WAY HUSH MONEY ) THERE IS A FISHER AN SHOOTER SOMETHING ON THE SENATE FORM OF ANY ELECTION IVE DONE (ONLY 3 2 FEDARAL 1 STATE) I VOTED IT EACH TIME WHAT DO THEY REPRESENT DO YOU VOTE THEM? I DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND POLITICS(DO THEY)BUT IF SOME ONE COULD ENLIGHTEN ME MORE ON IF HAS EVER REALLY HAD A VOICE IN PARLIMENT AS A WHOLE BUT ENOUGH IS ENOUGH AN TIME TO STAND UP AN FIGHT AS ONE :ohmy:

[snake 1]

my personnal view on a fishing licence is divided on 1pro and 1con.First the pro;having to pay for a licence too fish each year would discourage those who go fishing a few times a year and think they can catch and keep as many undersize fish possible and get away with it due to the small chance of getting caught by only a handfull of fisheries officers employed to enforce size and bag limit rules.Money gained from a licence scheme can help pay for more officers to catch these criminals and no more excuses regarding the limits as its printed on the back of every licence issued(fines for not carrying licence when fishing would deter free loaders!)..... con;trusting the government to use funds recieved from licence scheme in a responsible way to protect our fisheries and rights to fish well into the future...this is were it comes unstuck for me,murray river and emergency services levy are a perfect example of "well heres the cash,now show me what ya using it on,both still have the same problems today as they did before the levies were introduced!!"... cheers snake