Snapper Rigs

[Caterpillar 1]

Have been doing a bit of reading up on the net as far as how to present the bait for Snapper and found a few contradictory results so just wondering what people here are finding to be a good strong reliable rig?Cheers

[4THALOVE 45]

i use aan easy rig for sinker down to a swivel then hang either a size 6/0 up to a 9/0 single/ganged hook/s off the end simple but effective has always worked for me cheers.

[urhookedfish 12]

I have found the common patternoster to work very well. When tying the patternoster rig, I normally only use one trace and run two 6/0 Gammakatsu circles snelled together.I try and get my hooks to be between 1-1.5 feet above the snapper lead.Its interesting that in Whyalla, most anglers use a running rig, but I find a running rig gets tangled frequently. I find if the currents too strong your better off using a patternoster rig.

[Ale 301]

In my limited experience, Ive used a simple paternoster aswell, jinkai 40lb leader on the hook dropper, 40lb normal mono for the rest of the rig.One thing Im thinking changing tho is back to normal baitholder type hooks. Last time out I missed a couple a fish after a couple big runs using circles. Both where over heads in free spool with rachets on, and knowing I had circles on, didnt strike, just put the reel in gear but came up slack. Maybe put it down to luck, but I may make the switch back to normals. It just doesnt feel right letting your overhead sitting in the holder with it in gear with some drag Old habit die hard ayeAnother thing I dont like is trying to get the circles to pierce the skin on the slimies I like to use for bait. Much nicer to bait up whole fish with normal hooks.Intrested to see what the more acomplished snapper hunters think on the hook suitation

[urhookedfish 12]

Ale, I dont like to give fish a chance to swim off and spit circles. when I fish with an overhead, I never have the reel in freespool. I learnt that very early on.snapper normally take the bait well enough in the initial pick up, and having the reel in gear is enough to have it load up and then your on.Even when fishing unweighted with circles, I only let them take up the slack line and let the rod load up.I wouldnt be going back to non circles just yet.

[afishyfish 4]

Caterpillar, I'd take a look at the different options, experiment a bit, then see what works best for you

Even when fishing unweighted with circles' date=' I only let them take up the slack line and let the rod load up.I wouldnt be going back to non circles just yet.[/quote']yep tend to agree URHAle , I dont think circles are designed to be used that way, that might be a large part of the problem.Seems they rely on the fish hooking itself against the resistance of a reel in gear with an appropriate drag setting from what I understand

[Ale 301]

So how much drag do you have set whilst the rod sits in the holder? Im assuming that its reasonably light and once your on you crank it up a bit depending on fish size..

[Ale 301]

Appart from easier unhooking of the junior throw backs, what are the advantage of using the circles over the good old proven bait holders? I just wonder if they are one of those things that catch more fishers over fishes

[afishyfish 4]

So how much drag do you have set whilst the rod sits in the holder? Im assuming that its reasonably light and once your on you crank it up a bit depending on fish size..

Bit like asking how long is a piece of string ale :whistle: Depends on your line class , and the size fish you're hoping for. If you get anything bigger ya gotta be quick to adjust down accordingly !personally I find enough drag to let the hooks sink in, but not too much the fish will break off if or once it takes off, or you might tighten or even loosen the drag once you're hooked up.hard to explain really, call it experience

[urhookedfish 12]

So how much drag do you have set whilst the rod sits in the holder? Im assuming that its reasonably light and once your on you crank it up a bit depending on fish size..

If I have an overhead rod in the rod holder, I have it at nearly full fighting drag. Ie set so it will hook the fish while its in the holder, but once hooked and runs it will then take some line off. So its set fairly hard on the drag setting.What im banking on is that by having the rod in the holder that someone on the boat has got an eye on it at all times.if it loads up, hooks the fish, all someone has to do is reach the rod as its loading up and lift to set the hooks a bit firmer.I normally keep a good eye on my rod in the holder anyway but ask the other angler to keep a dam good eye on it if Im baiting the other rod or tying up another rig.The advantages of circles are many. Normally 95 percent of the time, if you have the reel in gear the snapper will hook itself against the weight of the sinker and resistance of the reel. There is then no problems of when to strike? You dont strike, you just lift hard!Two the speed at which you can release fish is alot quicker as the fish are getting hooked in the corner of the mouth.which means your baited up and back in the water most times without even having to pick up the pliers.Now seriously you can almost catch twice the number of fish because you havent looked around for the pliers etc. The fish is in the esky and your back in.

[urhookedfish 12]

So Brent your obviously having some good success on circles, how long have you been using em for now?I just love em so much. They have improved my snapper fishing out of sight.They just make catching snapper so easy.

[afishyfish 4]

So Brent your obviously having some good success on circles' date=' how long have you been using em for now?[/quote']Off and on for awhile now URH. I havent really put a serious effort into actually comparing hook-up rates, but agree the circles are definiteley easier to use for me, and most times better for the fish too I also definiteley find that whilke a traditiobnal "beak" style hook will usually miss a bite if you dont strike first time, I can sit there for a while as Mr Red has a hit or three or a chew before setting the hooks :woohoo:

[brenton 637]

Deep water.....Paternoster with 60lb Jinkai and single 6/0s all attached to the mainline with a catspaw.I usually hang onto the rod and strike on the bite so i don't use circles.Shallow water....running rig with snelled 4/0s on 25lb trace and as little weight as i can get away with. cheers brenton

[Fishie 98]

I have found the common patternoster to work very well. When tying the patternoster rig' date=' I normally only use one trace and run two 6/0 Gammakatsu circles snelled together.I try and get my hooks to be between 1-1.5 feet above the snapper lead.Its interesting that in Whyalla, most anglers use a running rig, but I find a running rig gets tangled frequently. I find if the currents too strong your better off using a patternoster rig.[/quote']Yep! let the circle hook do it's job... lock your drag up and you'll never lose the fish ;)Set your drag for 1/3 of the BS and you'll never break offDamn... wrong quote...meantto quote URH other reply

[afishyfish 4]

You dont muck around brenton Bit off topic here caterpillar

Yep! let the circle hook do it's job... lock your drag up and you'll never lose the fish ;)Set your drag for 1/3 of the BS and you'll never break off

IMO B/runner reels really come into their own here. You can set a reasonably firm drag to let the fish hook itself' date=' turn the heandle, and you're straight into your pre-set fighting drag Assuming I'm using it right anyway :whistle:

Damn... wrong quote...meantto quote URH other reply

Been a long day Fishie :whistle:

[Jack. 10]

Like Brenton said, Paternoster deep (say over 20m) running rig shallow (say under 15m). That's just what I do. But I really think both are probably equally efficient. It's personal preference and if you're in 35m of water for example, with a hard current, using a your heaviest lead on an easy rig is not real practical, so Paternoster is clearly going to be the better option. Similarly in 5-10m with a gentle current, a running rig un/slightly weighted, will give you the most natural presentation.As for circle hooks, I do not know... I tried em once , struck and missed 3 or four fish at Ardrossan, then while everyone was still laughing at me, I tied a 6 or 7/0 big red and got my two over 60's the next two casts.... Lucky too because the boat was up to 3 fish before that. Call me stupid, I understand how circle hooks work, but when the rod bends in half, I rip it back hard and set the hooks.... So circle hooks aren't for an excitable fisherperson like me

[Fishie 98]

That last lot of snapper we got out off Stanvac were all caught on circles... all of the fish hooked up straight off. Tight drag, chuck your rod in the rodholder and let your circle hook do it's job. It's the only way they work properly :cheer:

[Moggy23 625]

That last lot of snapper we got out off Stanvac were all caught on circles... all of the fish hooked up straight off. Tight drag' date=' chuck your rod in the rodholder and let your circle hook do it's job. It's the only way they work properly :cheer:[/quote']That exactly what we found and also must set the hook after hooked

[Rickster 0]

I myself have never used circle hooks and find this topic interesting,keep the info flowing people.:woohoo:

[afishyfish 4]

Normally 95 percent of the time' date=' if you have the reel in gear the snapper will hook itself against the weight of the sinker and resistance of the reel. [/quote']and 95% of the torrens lakebed and the Gulf reefs are made of those not held in some way :dry: :whistle:

[Caterpillar 1]

Thankyou to everyone for your comments and tips I will do my best to mull over it. At the moment my poor brain is having trouble dealing with all this information. I'm regretting dying my hair blonde this morning, I think it leeched through my skull. Who knows what stereotypes will be made with the combination of blonde/red hair. Angry and dumb? Dumb and angry? who knows Good thing my natural brunettishness is on standby :laugh:

[Rollas 2]

I find that it also comes down to baits as well. Are they alive or dead?If they are big live baits like whole 30cm mackerel I will run a foot length of 50 - 60lb leader with a simple loop to loop connection at the end and connect the loop to the dropper loop on the main line. Another loop on the bottom to change your lead to the weight required as the tide works, slows and stops. A Circle Hook needs to have a gap between it and the bait if the baits are big. If the hook is buried in the bait then when the fish hits and runs off all your doing is pulling the bait out of its mouth as there is no pivot point for the hook to work on the jaw. Look at how a bait is bridle rigged for gamefish and you will get the picture.I find that if I leave the reel in gear with around 2 - 3 kg of drag sitting in the rod holder when the larger fish come in and hit it they take off straight away and start pulling drag, rod bends over and the circle lodges in the corner of the jaw 95% of the time. I have still gill and gut hooked fish on circles. I like the loop to loop connection from mainline to hook so when I hook and land the fish you undo the loop to loop and put on a fresh trace with a new hook in a minute and baited in two then back into the action.If your fishing smaller baits again the principle is the same which is keep the hook point clear of bait. Just pin the bait through the corner of the fillet from the tail section however I do have a lighter drag setting because I am usually fishing with the lighter gear.The Ezi running rig is good for lighter inshore areas with less current and you want to adjust your weight. Keep a short leader on it around a foot and a half to two foot to keep the tangles down. I still prefer using the single patternoster but if the current gets to light I just take the sinker off and put the hook there instead. Easy.Cheers

[urhookedfish 12]

That is a really good point that Rollas has made.when fishing circles it is important that you have plenty of exposed gape of the hook.Rollas loop method is the most ideal way to bait large fish, but I cut corners to a small degree by putting the first hook straight through the eye socket of a fish bait (I find I get enough hook exposure), and then the second hook is rolled backwards along and across the spine to basically leave pretty much the whole hook exposed.Once you start baiting your bait this way, your hookup rate will be phenominal to say the least.

[Ale 301]

Rolla,some great info there, explained it nicely, and youve made a good mention of the circle hooks and the exposing of their barbs.So far the only advantage Im seeing from circles is the lack of needing to strike as you get the bite and the easy unhooking of the throw backs. In regards to rebaiting again, if gill hooked using baitholders, I too have just cut the dropper, attach a new one and your away. I have also had circles gill hooked and had to do the same.Elsewhere you mentioned you used to do this for a living so you may know, what kinda hooks do the long liners use?Im assuming they bait up using anything and everything, the "drag" on one hook would be the wieght of the rest of the long line plus what ever fish are on it, so it would seems circles would be the go?

[urhookedfish 12]

Rolla' date='some great info there, explained it nicely, and youve made a good mention of the circle hooks and the exposing of their barbs.So far the only advantage Im seeing from circles is the lack of needing to strike as you get the bite and the easy unhooking of the throw backs. In regards to rebaiting again, if gill hooked using baitholders, I too just cut the dropper, attach a new one and your away. I have also had circles gill hooked and had to do the same.Elsewhere you mentioned you used to do this for a living so you may know, what kinda hooks do the long liners use?Im assuming they bait up using anything and everything, the "drag" on one hook would be the wieght of the rest of the long line plus what ever fish are on it, so it would seems circles would be the go?[/quote']Ale, gut hooking happens very rarely for rec anglers.I dont even own a pair of pliers (just havent needed em really since fishing circles )- thats because I can pull the hook out by hand no problem at all and if I do get one gut hooked I will just cut it off or borrow pliers to get it out.Ive had it happen twice in 7years of fishing.The advantage in not having to dig hooks out of your fish, or not having to cut your rigs in the heat of battle is priceless.The amount of time saved is huge.

[Ale 301]

Ale' date=' gut hooking happens very rarely for rec anglers.Its almost to the stage where you could go snapper fishing without a pair of pliers!Ive had it happen twice in 7years of fishing.The advantage in not having to dig hooks out of your fish, or not having to cut your rigs in the heat of battle is priceless.The amount of time saved is huge.[/quote']I see your point, I wont give up on the circles yet, I'l just pay more attention to how I use them. In the same token, the big red baitholders will still be in my tackle box.Ive had 4 snapper in my boat over the last month, 1 gut hooked with 2 big reds, 1 gut hooked with 2 circles, the other 2 where lip hooked on circles.all on dodge tides..... the fishing capper has no rules, just experience, chance, luck and skill. Most of all its fun

[Tight_Lines 1]

Interesting chat on circles guys, I've always wondered if I should only have the single circle on the dropper or to snell two. I used to have two standard hooks(big reds) snelled on my dropper but I assume you really only want one circle hook so it can work properly.I figure having two circles close together the furthest hook up the line will catch in the corner of the mouth and the one at the end of the line would be useless, or increase the chance of hooking deeper down the throat.

[urhookedfish 12]

Your so right mate, its so much fun it HURTS!!!:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: The good thing is once you start fishing with your reel in gear and start to hook the fish just as he gets it in his mouth and turns to swim off, you gut hooking should be a thing of the past!!Making release without punctures inside the fishes throat so much easier.

[Rollas 2]

The longliners all use Circles nowdays. I dont think there are too many using standard J hooks. The drag of the 5klm line as used down here in the gulf would be the same as a 1 - 3 kg drag setting on your rod. Just enough to keep the tangles away but enough to pull the hook out of the gullet of the fish into the corner of the mouth. As for what bait they use, well it depends on who and where I suppose. Have not been out on a longliner here in S.A yet. Be a great experience. I like that fact that with a circle when your on - your on. With a J it can fall out 10 seconds into it and you dont know why.Circle hooks are the go, but like normal hooks you need to match the hook to the bait. Once you get this sorted (by that I mean buying lots more hooks!) then its the rigging. Look online there are so many different websites and a lot of them have Factual basis not just gut instinct. The link below is based on research done in N.Z with the Snapper fishery and shows results that make you sit up and notice. This is not the first publication on the result there are lots more.http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=7688&forum_id=10&jump_to=155695Mods if I was not supposed to link the topic my apologies, please remove and I will know for next time.

[urhookedfish 12]

Interesting chat on circles guys' date=' I've always wondered if I should only have the single circle on the dropper or to snell two. I used to have two standard hooks(big reds) snelled on my dropper but I assume you really only want one circle hook so it can work properly.I figure having two circles close together the furthest hook up the line will catch in the corner of the mouth and the one at the end of the line would be useless, or increase the chance of hooking deeper down the throat.[/quote']Ive always ran two circles snelled about 7-10cm appart depending on if Im fishing pillies or full macks or half macks.I find this to be very effective. Not sure which hook is doing all the hooking, will pay closer attention to that next time Im out. I think the adrenline gets to me and I just rip the hook out without even noticing..loltoo focussed on getting the next one.

[Tight_Lines 1]

Interesting chat on circles guys' date=' I've always wondered if I should only have the single circle on the dropper or to snell two. I used to have two standard hooks(big reds) snelled on my dropper but I assume you really only want one circle hook so it can work properly.I figure having two circles close together the furthest hook up the line will catch in the corner of the mouth and the one at the end of the line would be useless' date=' or increase the chance of hooking deeper down the throat.[/quote'']Ive always ran two circles snelled about 7-10cm appart depending on if Im fishing pillies or full macks or half macks.I find this to be very effective. Not sure which hook is doing all the hooking, will pay closer attention to that next time Im out. I think the adrenline gets to me and I just rip the hook out without even noticing..loltoo focussed on getting the next one.

Cant argue with that, if you've had success it must work ok. I know that feeling when your crazy rebaiting to get back down again.I'd love to know which hook did the damage though.

[urhookedfish 12]

Interesting chat on circles guys' date=' I've always wondered if I should only have the single circle on the dropper or to snell two. I used to have two standard hooks(big reds) snelled on my dropper but I assume you really only want one circle hook so it can work properly.I figure having two circles close together the furthest hook up the line will catch in the corner of the mouth and the one at the end of the line would be useless' date=' or increase the chance of hooking deeper down the throat.[/quote'']Ive always ran two circles snelled about 7-10cm appart depending on if Im fishing pillies or full macks or half macks.I find this to be very effective. Not sure which hook is doing all the hooking, will pay closer attention to that next time Im out. I think the adrenline gets to me and I just rip the hook out without even noticing..loltoo focussed on getting the next one.

Cant argue with that, if you've had success it must work ok. I know that feeling when your crazy rebaiting to get back down again.I'd love to know which hook did the damage though.

Yeah ive caught a truck load of reds on twin circles.Funniest thing is last trip out with Boyington, I got two double headers of babey snapper on the twin circles.Ie had a fish on each hook of the snelled rig.two fish bit at the bait at same time and one got hooked on each hook. was hell funny.nearly took a pic to put up but being babey snapper couldnt be bothered. it was a first for me and to do that twice in one trip was crazy, although slightly embarrasing considering their size.but was good to see the juvenile snapper stocks of the state are looking pretty healthy.

[Kat 0]

what the hell is a circle?

[Tight_Lines 1]

Must have been one tasty bait!The juveniles are in good numbers, thats all I seem to catch Another thing I do for my patenoster rig is use a lighter line on the sinker dropper, that way if it snags up I only use a sinker and not the whole rig. Doesn't help if the hooks snag up still but prefer to just tie on a new sinker dropper that everything

[urhookedfish 12]

what the hell is a circle?

This is a Gamakatsu circle hook. You will notice that the barb is turned in.But until this thread' date=' circles were a secret weapon..BIG LOL