Soobz 557 Posted December 13, 2021 Report Share Posted December 13, 2021 I keep having to look this up so I thought I'd produce a guide I can refer back to, and maybe it helps others. Many would know braid labelled strength vs diameter is all over the place in AU, with seemingly no consistency. The reason for this is the US market decided they would label braid based on the mono equivalent size rather than it's true breaking strength, except they didn't really do that and it's a seemingly meaningless number. In Europe they generally label with the actual breaking strain. Australia seems to have gotten a mishmash. eg. JBraid x8 0.13mm (from the labels) EU = 8kg AU = 3.8kg/8lb US = 8lb All of them are made in Japan, same factory, why is the EU one 2x stronger? Because it's not, they are all the same line. Also, 8lb mono would be more like 0.25mm, so it's not even like it's truly a mono equivalent number. I use Tasline for my Vanford 2000, their 12lb is 0.128mm (yeah right, like they can measure a non round braid to 0.001mm), and they state they expect it to break at 20.6lb or 9.3kg, so at least you get an idea of what it's really intended to hold. I have not had one single wind knot with that 'thin as hell miles casting line', unlike the JBraid that I've had a few with. Here's the charts I use now, it's Tasline's numbers, they tie up with somewhat similar number to Sufix 832, JBraid and Kairiki - at least a hell of a lot closer than the AU labels. Test 8 lb 12 lb 15 lb 20 lb 30 lb 40 lb 50 lb 60 lb 80 lb 100 lb Diameter in mm 0.115 0.128 0.163 0.225 0.299 0.317 0.332 0.422 0.48 0.545 PE Rating 0.5 0.6 1 1.7 3 3.5 4 6 8 10 Actual Average Break 14.2 lb 20.6 lb 23.7 lb 34.7 lb 49.0 lb 59.2 lb 78.5 lb 91.6 lb 116.2 lb 138.2 lb PE 0.6 ………………………….. 0.128mm PE 0.8 ………………………….. 0.148mm PE 1 …………………………….. 0.165mm PE 1.2 ………………………….. 0.185mm PE 1.5 ………………………….. 0.205mm PE 1.7 ………………………….. 0.218mm PE 2 …………………………….. 0.235mm PE 2.5 ………………………….. 0.260mm PE 3 …………………………….. 0.285mm PE 3.5 ………………………….. 0.310mm PE 4 …………………………….. 0.330mm PE 5 …………………………….. 0.370mm PE 6 …………………………….. 0.405mm PE 7 …………………………….. 0.435mm PE 8 …………………………….. 0.470mm PE 10 …………………………… 0.520mm doobie, Softy, keenfisho and 1 other 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SurfcaztR 707 Posted December 13, 2021 Report Share Posted December 13, 2021 I find the true breaking strength of a line is at the knot (braid to leader).it can be tested with various devices at home as in knowing what you're working with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAH 438 Posted December 13, 2021 Report Share Posted December 13, 2021 I've been using Platypus P8 and quite like it. But it's certainly confusing, it lists the breaking strain, equivalent mono diameter and the actual unknotted breaking strain. Its a PITA not knowing what the real strength of the line is. If they published the proper data, I'm sure I could go down in size/lighter line and not risk bust-offs. This is what I think is really happening, by under promising the performance of the line, we say to ourselves this line is great, I never break-off, but it's not really the quality of the line, but that it's over rated to begin with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soobz 557 Posted December 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2021 That's the thing, the knot strength is usually way less than the braid strength. FWIW, I've broken 20lb FC rock at the clinch knot before I broke the alberto braid/FC knot with 0.128mm braid, but that's a tiny sample size. The thing is that's trying to un-snag, I look forward to a fish that I can do that with :). HB tragic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yellow door 1 1,823 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 There used to be an independent line tester called PAULUS - his results used to be freely available online but I can find them anymore. They were super handy and showed which brands stuck close to the truth and which ones were wildly inaccurate. His results even high lighted different strength ratings, for different lines, within the same company. Berkley were all over the shop with their line ratings I strength test my line with luggage scales theses days but I dont have the gear to test thickness Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soobz 557 Posted December 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 59 minutes ago, yellow door 1 said: There used to be an independent line tester called PAULUS - his results used to be freely available online but I can find them anymore. Yeah, his site is up but not showing the results. But you can see the archived versions ,they are out of date and are missing some of the modern favourites. Also he was sloppy with filling out the table accurately, eg. .he says Sufix 6lb is 1.8mm, he probably means .18mm but that's Sufix 8lb - which he tested at 24lb but measures it at .22m (I get .18 on my 8lb which is it's spec) and the 6lb should be 0.13mm, so I do wonder how he came up with his numbers. yellow door 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wert 470 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 Braid breaking strains and diameters I'm pretty sure are allocated via a random number generator. Through much trial and error I've found siglon PE8 seems to have the most accurate stated breaking strains and is way thinner and smoother than any others rated the same so I use it because I know what I'm getting. I suspect the only true answer to this braid conundrum is do your own legwork and hopefully you find what you like. This is why I will pay a little more and shop at brick and mortar tackle shops most of the time, being able to physically touch, feel and compare before you buy is just so worth the small premium. Soobz, HB tragic and Territory Lad 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Territory Lad 1,137 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 Personally I use Sunline Siglon PE8 and couldn't be happier. I recall seeing some tests done by Steve Morgan on Braid breaking strains and pretty sure Siglon came put closest to it's ladled breaking strain. Wert and HB tragic 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SurfcaztR 707 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 aquaholik lee got heaps of tests on youtube Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SurfcaztR 707 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 Here is some more results,don't know who's it is. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtvrv8c7dho30mv/Braid Test Results.xlsx?dl=0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wert 470 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 54 minutes ago, Territory Lad said: Personally I use Sunline Siglon PE8 and couldn't be happier. I recall seeing some tests done by Steve Morgan on Braid breaking strains and pretty sure Siglon came put closest to it's ladled breaking strain. I'd believe that about the breaking strain. It's actually great value too I reckon, it does cost a bit up front but lasts for years then you reverse it, way better value than my premium mono days (platil, Ande, Platypus, maxima, ahhh the old days) where you were respooling twice a year or more. Have you tried the newer infused "adv" (I think) stuff? I've had one outfit rigged up with 20lb for about a year now, so far I'm super happy, it is still in great shape after reasonable use and definitely a bit more slippery than the regular PE8 but it'll be another 2 or 3 years until I'll know how good the longevity is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Territory Lad 1,137 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 54 minutes ago, Wert said: Have you tried the newer infused "adv" (I think) stuff? I've had one outfit rigged up with 20lb for about a year now, so far I'm super happy, it is still in great shape after reasonable use and definitely a bit more slippery than the regular PE8 but it'll be another 2 or 3 years until I'll know how good the longevity is. Yeah mate, I currently have a 2500 spooled with 10lb multi colour and a 1000 with 6lb turquoise - I may have actually done it one your recommendation actually hahaha. Initial reactions after 8 months or so, pretty good. Only thing I don't like, because of the colour, is I struggle to see the braid the moment there is any glare on water - so early morning yak sessions or any overcast conditions can be quite frustrating. But knots, smoothness, castability etc. All good and so far no wind knots. If only it came in a Hi-Vis colour like fluoro orange, green, pink etc. Wert 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yellow door 1 1,823 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 4 hours ago, Soobz said: Yeah, his site is up but not showing the results. But you can see the archived versions ,they are out of date and are missing some of the modern favourites. Also he was sloppy with filling out the table accurately, eg. .he says Sufix 6lb is 1.8mm, he probably means .18mm but that's Sufix 8lb - which he tested at 24lb but measures it at .22m (I get .18 on my 8lb which is it's spec) and the 6lb should be 0.13mm, so I do wonder how he came up with his numbers. Yeah with all the lines I was interested in at the time - his results lined up my suspicions - if I though a line was thicker than stated - his results would show it - if I thought a line was much stronger - same - if I thought a line was slightly weaker than other lines from the same company - his results would show that too......... So I just trusted what he had written as gospel because it supported all my hunches and made me think I was a bit of a genius for being able to spot these minor differences by eye, feel and using the force Soobz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAH 438 Posted December 14, 2021 Report Share Posted December 14, 2021 Last night I was tying a few hooks ready for the warmer weather and had out my box of lines. I looked at the braids I had; J-Braid 8 - 8lb Shimano Kairiki 4 - 10lb Platypus P8 - 10lb Duel Hardcore Pro X4 - 12lb All nice braided line and all bought specifically for different purpose. But when I look closely, they are basically the same diameter (either 0.13mm or 0.14mm). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wert 470 Posted December 15, 2021 Report Share Posted December 15, 2021 7 hours ago, MAH said: Last night I was tying a few hooks ready for the warmer weather and had out my box of lines. I looked at the braids I had; J-Braid 8 - 8lb Shimano Kairiki 4 - 10lb Platypus P8 - 10lb Duel Hardcore Pro X4 - 12lb All nice braided line and all bought specifically for different purpose. But when I look closely, they are basically the same diameter (either 0.13mm or 0.14mm). Do they all feel the same diameter also? Per above I have reservations about most specs given on braid packaging. How hard can it be to just accurately state breaking strain and diameter? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soobz 557 Posted December 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 In the interests of science I tried to measure some braids on a digital microscope. I don't think it's too accurate at measuring so don't take the numbers on face value, and I'm very new to this camera so it's not great imaging at these zooms, so, these are not under any significant tension which may affect diameter a bit. But here's some photos for ya. white = Tasline 12lb, supposed to be 0.128mm yellow = Sufix 832 8lb, supposed to be 0.18mm green = Sufix 832 30lb, supposed to be 0.29mm silver = 0.35mm solder. I put this in as a ref because it was measurable by calipers and was 0.36mm on Moore and Wright (good brand) I also calibrated the camera manually for some measurements using 0.25mm on the calipers. Yellow text is hard to read on some sorry, so I'll type underneath 50x zoom, manual cal, 0.349 = solder, 0.321/0.310,0.236/0.252,0.246/0.252 132x zoom, 0.300, 0.228, 0.223 I think all I can really take from this is 8lb Sufix 832 is pretty much the same size as Tasline 12lb, which makes sense since Tasline say theirs really is more like 20.6lb and Sufix EU say theirs is more like 26lb. BTW the 0.3mm 832 is 50lb in the EU. And as much as I know the measurements aren't accurate I reckon Tasline might be taking the piss with .128mm, but I did fit 300m on my Vanford 2500 so then again it's under 0.18 Wert and yellow door 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAH 438 Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 15/12/2021 at 6:00 PM, Wert said: Do they all feel the same diameter also? Per above I have reservations about most specs given on braid packaging. How hard can it be to just accurately state breaking strain and diameter? No, the Platypus definitely feels thicker and the Duel feels the thinnest. The Duel feels more like some 6lb line I have that is listed as 0.07mm. I'm with you, I just want to know the true breaking strain, so I can use the thinnest line I need, rather than underrating the braking strain and ending up with heavier line. My Emeraldas reel supposedly can fit 200m of 0.6 PE. The Platypus braid I have it spooled with is supposedly 0.6, but there is no way I can fit 200m. Wert 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rybak 622 Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 A good knowledgeable tackle store owner can assist with all the lines and thickness etc etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Soobz 557 Posted December 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 Sadly they can't, because they can only go by what's printed by the manufacturer, which we know is largely inaccurate in AU. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SurfcaztR 707 Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 10 hours ago, MAH said: No, the Platypus definitely feels thicker and the Duel feels the thinnest. The Duel feels more like some 6lb line I have that is listed as 0.07mm. I'm with you, I just want to know the true breaking strain, so I can use the thinnest line I need, rather than underrating the braking strain and ending up with heavier line. My Emeraldas reel supposedly can fit 200m of 0.6 PE. The Platypus braid I have it spooled with is supposedly 0.6, but there is no way I can fit 200m. When i ran the 2500 Emeraldas reel this PE1 line on the Emeraldas spool took the whole 150m roll,never lost a jig with line breaking usually the knot was the issue and my fault tying.Compairing this with others used comes out as 0.13mm and rated 20.2lb https://isofishinglifestyle.com.au/collections/pe-line/products/varivas-avani-eging-max-power-pe-x8?variant=32779085840447 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rybak 622 Posted December 16, 2021 Report Share Posted December 16, 2021 45 minutes ago, Soobz said: Sadly they can't, because they can only go by what's printed by the manufacturer, which we know is largely inaccurate in AU. When they use/try many of the lines themselves & spool up different reels, they have a pretty good idea IMO. At least they can provide some helpful info. keenfisho and Territory Lad 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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