Cultured baitworm feedback required later this year

[Baitworms 0]

Hi all,I am new to this forum but hopefully have something to offer the angling community and something to gain for my research.I have just completed my PhD developing culture protocols for marine baitworms (Flinders University). We can now successfully grow and produce sandworms and have reached the point of planning some market research.We plan to visit jetties and boat ramps later in the year (probably after July) with free samples of our worms which will be handed out in return for the completion of a survey (online or hard copy). The survey will report upon the following: how easy they are to load on hooks, how well they stayed on hook, if they stayed active once on hook, if they are effective, what species are caught (and how many of each species), would you buy these worms, were the worms still alive at the end of the trip, would you have liked more worms than provided with, would you recommend our worms to friends. Have we missed anything??? I am jumping through administrative hoops ATM with ethics applications so it will take a while before we get the go-ahead.I just thought I would throw the idea out there and see what response we might get. Also seeing as we are at the development stage I would like to ask if anyone has any good ideas about how to get feedback on our worms.I look forward to some interesting replies.Sam

[catch fillet release 22]

reckon youd be better to give out to different fishers on here,save travel,save searching for regulars.you'd get all bases covered right herebeachjettyboatcfri'll try them as a boat fisher

[Baitworms 0]

Hi CFR,That's a definite possibility, I will include that in ethics application so we can reach a wider audience.Thanks for your input

[Ale 301]

surely starting your relationship with anglers that have an online presence would be easier to keep in touch with and stay connected. Great initiative by the way

[urhookedfish 12]

Theres no point handing a specialised bait to the average mum and dad fisho on a jetty. For a start they need to be fished on long shank hooks and be fished in the shallows where there are often small gutters that hold yellowfin whiting, bream and mullet.If you give these to the average fisho, you will not get an accurate picture of how the worms compare to freshly caught worms in which experienced anglers dig up themselves, because these average fisho's would probably of not of even used worms as bait before, are fishing in the wrong locations and using incorrect gear.I agree that you need to somehow gather a test group from here or dare I say it Fish SA (THE OTHER online forum) so you can really get some decisive and accurate feedback.I would also recommend that the anglers that do the testing be experienced with using worms.I would also like to say that I think there is HUGE potential to sell these as bait to almost every tackle shop! If they are sold at an equivalent price to tube worms they will compete very well.

[Baitworms 0]

Thanks for that.Glad I tried this approach before we get the go-ahead, by incorporating your suggestions we can get much more meaningful feedback.Great suggestions, fully agree, hadn't thought of that aspect (not being a fisherman!!!).I think using the forums is going to be the best approach as the feedback in the last hour has shown.Thanks again

[4THALOVE 45]

Hi all' date='I am new to this forum but hopefully have something to offer the angling community and something to gain for my research.I have just completed my PhD developing culture protocols for marine baitworms (Flinders University). We can now successfully grow and produce sandworms and have reached the point of planning some market research.Sam[/quote']Welcome to the site Congrats on your phd :)Always wondered if anyone was ever going to attempt to do this sort of research - testingRecently took 2 other members from tha site down to Point Riley collected some seaweed worms and had some success on them out in the bay will be interesting to see how the "clones" stack up against them Is there any other forms of work you are investigating ie tube worms / pipi's etc that you are also testing would certainly be interested to give the worms a test once available Cheers 4THA

[CallopHunter 1]

I'll be happy to give em' a shot from the beach! :)

[crispy 2]

Sounds like a great idea ,if it works well you could start a whole new industry .

[Baitworms 0]

OK just to take this a step further, I would need a sample size of at least 100 anglers, is that likely if I use forums to recruit?

[Baitworms 0]

Hi Crispy that's the idea.We are almost at the pilot-scale commercial stage so keep your eyes peeled.I conducted a baitshop survey in 2008 which identified a lack of regular/reliable suppliers of baitworms along with a need so we took it on.

[CallopHunter 1]

If its possible maybe one of the mods could start a thread or a petition of some sorts?

[Baitworms 0]

4thalove,We tried tubeworms but seeing as they are already cultured in NSW and are more difficult to harvest (ours don't have a tube) we focussed on sandworms.Haven't quite got the PhD yet, the work is done but the pain is still ongoing :SI would love to get my hands on some seaweed worms, have been out a few times but never managed to find them.Not sure I understand your reference to 'clones', our worms are from a wild caught population which breed just like any other worms no Frankenstein business just worm farming.Great to see so much interest

[Baitworms 0]

If its possible maybe one of the mods could start a thread or a petition of some sorts?

Hi Callop hunter, do you mean so that I can find enough to get my sample size (100)?If so great idea.Thanks Sam

[grego 0]

id be in. would said worms if ready available drive the prices of worms down? that would make a lot of fishos happy campers

[CallopHunter 1]

Yeah my point exactly, and a sub-option to indicate where you will use them e.g- Bottom of Yorkes from a Jetty or Nth Metro from the beach. Then your sample size will cover a range of different places and platforms making your experiment a fair test!

[Baitworms 0]

id be in. would said worms if ready available drive the prices of worms down? that would make a lot of fishos happy campers

Hi Grego, bit early to say just yet. We would keep prices reasonable but still need to make a profit as you would understand.

[Baitworms 0]

Yeah my point exactly' date=' and a sub-option to indicate where you will use them e.g- Bottom of Yorkes from a Jetty or Nth Metro from the beach. Then your sample size will cover a range of different places and platforms making your experiment a fair test![/quote']Callop hunter you're closet scientist!!!!!!!You have the right idea, I will change one of my questions to include platform/ locations.Thanks for the fantastic input :cheer:

[Kelvin 2,200]

Great Idea, I would be very keen.I did read the survey a while ago with interest.http://dspace.flinders.edu.au/xmlui/handle/2328/7289There is a large market for bait worms, but it is mainly a summer fishery and the majority of anglers searching for live worms are using them for yellowfin whiting.Winter fishing is a bit different and most keen anglers will be collecting their own bloowworms during the bloodworm run to freeze up.

[ShimsMan 1]

Hi Baitworms, welcome to the forum! I love the initiative and couldn't think of a better control groups than the SA fishing forums!I started out fishing with baitworms and they're probably my fave bait for catching anything that swims!I did stop buying them months back due to the expense and sometimes rarity of them, $8-10 for 4 or 5 worms is just too expensive for someone who fishes mainly for food, especially when a block of pilchards can be had for a good price.All that said, i would love to give your baitworms a go and give all the feedback you want; if you guys can make a large enough scale of farming to be competitive, it looks like i might buy them up again someday.Feel free to PM me if you want to collect contact details etc.

[Kingsley 19]

Congrats finishing your PhD, now you just have to wait a year or so for your supervisor to sign it off, get it peer reviewed and do your changes etc then finally graduate sometime this decade You'll be signing letters with Dr before you know it :)Exactly which type of worm are you culturing?I only know of bloodworms, tubeworms, bungum worms and seaweed worms....and as far as I am aware you could call all of them 'sandworms'?If you are culturing bungums, I reckon you're onto a winner. And if you can do seaweed worms that's a whole new market. I'm sure Kelvin can help you find some ;)Bungums are gun bait for whiting, but difficulty of collection, lack of supply and hence high price stops people from using them.If they were a decent price/bait and in regular supply they'd probably be used a lot more.The 'go to' bait is still cockles for most people, coz its what they know.But you know all this already from your previous study.I predict your user/potential customer survey will show that the average joe wouldn't have to foggiest on how to use worms effectively, they would then compare them to another bait like cockles, and you won't really gain much from the exercise.Even so, I reckon its a goer and you're going to do well from your venture. Even better that you are a local.

[Baitworms 0]

Congrats finishing your PhD' date=' now you just have to wait a year or so for your supervisor to sign it off, get it peer reviewed and do your changes etc then finally graduate sometime this decade You'll be signing letters with Dr before you know it :)Exactly which type of worm are you culturing?I only know of bloodworms, tubeworms, bungum worms and seaweed worms....and as far as I am aware you could call all of them 'sandworms'?If you are culturing bungums, I reckon you're onto a winner. And if you can do seaweed worms that's a whole new market. I'm sure Kelvin can help you find some ;)Bungums are gun bait for whiting, but difficulty of collection, lack of supply and hence high price stops people from using them.If they were a decent price/bait and in regular supply they'd probably be used a lot more.The 'go to' bait is still cockles for most people, coz its what they know.But you know all this already from your previous study.I predict your user/potential customer survey will show that the average joe wouldn't have to foggiest on how to use worms effectively, they would then compare them to another bait like cockles, and you won't really gain much from the exercise.Even so, I reckon its a goer and you're going to do well from your venture. Even better that you are a local.[/quote']They are a species of nereid or centipede worm. I was put onto them by some old anglers at Pt Noarlunga, they used to be a regular bait item until the Marine Reserve was established in the 70s or 80s after which it was off limits to SA anglers. It is only found in two other places in the state (that I can find reference to) one is off the Aldinga Reef (protected) and the other is off Ceduna so none of these are easily accessed.Adult worms are 10 - 15 cm long and a couple of mm wide, the accepted size for bait (interstate and overseas) is greater than 600mg or 0.6 g. My profile picture is the species I am culturing (Perinereis vallata if that helps ).I have already had a chat with one of my supervisors re. target audience and we will be taking the advice of forum members and trying to get our 'taste testers' from your and other angling forums. If I can get 100 from here then I won't look elsewhere. You seem to have a handle on the PhD and science process so would understand that I need a decent sample size for the results to mean anything.Will keep you postedSam (female)

[Baitworms 0]

Hi Baitworms' date=' welcome to the forum! I love the initiative and couldn't think of a better control groups than the SA fishing forums!I started out fishing with baitworms and they're probably my fave bait for catching anything that swims!I did stop buying them months back due to the expense and sometimes rarity of them, $8-10 for 4 or 5 worms is just too expensive for someone who fishes mainly for food, especially when a block of pilchards can be had for a good price.All that said, i would love to give your baitworms a go and give all the feedback you want; if you guys can make a large enough scale of farming to be competitive, it looks like i might buy them up again someday.Feel free to PM me if you want to collect contact details etc. [/quote']Hi Shimsman I am still months away from collecting names and will probably approach the moderators as suggested earlier so that we can collect contact details in a single easy to find place.Thanks for the encouragement (everyone seems to view this as a positive thing, which is nice).Great intro to your forum

[Ranger 48]

Sam, I can see great benefits for the angling community, hopefully along with another successful SA business enterprise.Live worms make a great bait for a number of species, they can be difficult to obtain, they can be expensive when purchased.A ready supply at a reasonable price would be a great benefit to the angling community.Likewise, if the angling community can be of assistance during the development stage, you would have our full support, with a view towards a successful venture.Congratulations on the PhD, I'd be interested to read your research paper once completed, and if the staff from this website can offer any assistance in regards to networking with the angling community, or with angling advice, don't hesitate to make contact and we'll do whatever we can to assist.....we have numbers, we have contacts, we have exposure, we have local knowledge.If you need numbers for trials and surveys, I feel pretty sure you'll find them here, and I would expect the local anglers would be keen to assist.....Ya can count me in on the trials too! I'd be keen to give em a go on the beaches for Whiting, and in the estuaries for Bream.

[Baitworms 0]

Sam' date=' I can see great benefits for the angling community, hopefully along with another successful SA business enterprise.Live worms make a great bait for a number of species, they can be difficult to obtain, they can be expensive when purchased.A ready supply at a reasonable price would be a great benefit to the angling community.Likewise, if the angling community can be of assistance during the development stage, you would have our full support, with a view towards a successful venture.Best of luck for the PhD, I'd be interested to read your research paper once completed, and if the staff from this website can offer any assistance in regards to networking with the angling community, or with angling advice, don't hesitate to make contact and we'll do whatever we can to assist.....we have numbers, we have contacts, we have exposure, we have local knowledge.Ya can count me in on the trials too! I'd be keen to give em a go on the beaches for Whiting, and in the estuaries for Bream. [/quote'] I am officially blown away by the help and support I have received today and I look forward to working alongside some of you in the not too distant future.It makes planning, and just life in general, so much easier when you know there is help out there.Thanks

[Ranger 48]

If it's good for angling, development, and local enterprise, there is no reason why Strikehook anglers wouldn't be keen to assist and support wholeheartedly!Let us know what you want, when you want it, and lets work together for mutual benefit!

[Savagelip 4]

bit confused.. (Perinereis vallata)are they beach worms? these beachworms a.k.a bungumworms were pulled local..

[Baitworms 0]

bit confused.. (Perinereis vallata)are they beach worms? [attachment=14007]tennyson2011007.JPG[/attachment]these beachworms a.k.a bungumworms were pulled local..

Yours are bungum worms' date=' mine are sandworm/centipede worm initially collected from a protected area (a ministerial exemption permit was granted).Common names cause problems the world over. Yours in the photo are [i']Australonuphis[/i] mine are Perinereis but both are segmented marine worms (Annelida) so they are in the same family but different genus.Local anglers used to use my worm (they showed me where to get them) but I don't think they were ever commercially available whereas bungums are.Hope that helps (a bit)

[Kelvin 2,200]

Beach/bungum worms are in the family OnuphidaeNereididae > centipede worms/ sand wormsI suspect they will be a similar species to what I have heard referred to as spagetti worms. I have dug them from around the west beach area and they are thinner and much more fragile than a bungum worm.

[Baitworms 0]

Beach/bungum worms are in the family OnuphidaeNereididae > centipede worms/ sand wormsI suspect they will be a similar species to what I have heard referred to as spagetti worms. I have dug them from around the west beach area and they are thinner and much more fragile than a bungum worm.

Correct Kelin, they are similar to the ones near West Beach/Outer Harbour but ours don't break they are very robust. I collected the ones you mention early in the piece but they just fell to pieces so we gave that idea away.

[Ranger 48]

I suspect they will be a similar species to what I have heard referred to as spagetti worms. I have dug them from around the west beach area and they are thinner and much more fragile than a bungum worm.

According to the museum there are 56 species of Perinereis worldwide, and 15 of those species are found in Australia.You may know them as spaghetti worms, rag worms, lug worms, or a range of different common names.Here's some reading you may find interesting on the subject should you wish to delve a little deeper:http://www.gbri.org.au/Species/Perinereis%28Nereis%29sp.aspx http://www.pdfdownload.org/pdf2html/pdf2html.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Faustralianmuseum.net.au%2FUploads%2FJournals%2F17748%2F47_complete.pdf&images=yes(Note: click on "try viewing with google" to display the pdf.)Me personally, I love this sorta stuff! I'd be very interested to hear from Sam if she has time available, to explain a little more about her background, her research, where she hopes it will lead, and what future goals will be for this worming enterprise, along with future employment goals and why she chose worms for her research project....if that isn't considered rude or prying that is!I'd also like to convince Strikehookers to get behind this request for assistance, coz at the end of the day it's gonna be a benefit for us anglers and our fishery, so why shouldn't we offer to help out where we can along the way! If just 100 of us can grab a few worms when requested, have a fish with them, and then fill out a simple survey, that shouldn't inconvenience anyone too much....and it's even gonna provide you with a little bait in the process. ;)If need be, when Sam is ready I can collect contact details from everyone interested to help out (so that it remains in confidence rather than being posted openly on the net) and I can provide Sam with all relevant details, maybe even organise a convenient pick-up point if necessary, just to help expediate things and make the process as painless as possible. We could post the required surveyPDF here for each member to download themselves, then collate all the completed copies and send them off to Sam.......what say you Sam, would something along those lines help you out?I've got a little idea I might also share with Sam much later if she'd like to hear it, where if this takes off for her, we may even be able to offer some assistance with distribution, by providing her access to our own networks within the industry, that we at Strikehook already have in place....maybe that's putting the cart before the horse though!By the way though, we wont go to all this effort for nothing, so in return, one day we're gonna have get you together with the anglers, and teach you how to catch a fish yaself, with your own worms...only then will you really be one of us!

[trihull 177]

After reading this , Well done on your PhD, add me to your list as well...... :whistle: Maybe try breeding Nippers :evil:

[King Monkey 0]

Sounds great,count me in,I'll give them a go on the yellowfin and king george whiting ,it would be great to get a reasonably priced worm on to the marketMonkey

[Damo67 6]

Great work. I would definetely be interested. A keen YFW fisherman , would love to test them out.

[urhookedfish 12]

I would also be happy to test them out.