Knot help please

[vogon 295]

G'day all,

I normally fish with fairly lightweight line & leader, 6 to 10lb but have recently bought an 11' beach/surf rod with a 5500 reel which has 30lb braid, Daiwa bulk & 40 lb leader, Daiwa J thread.

My problem is that the knots I had previously been using, Albright or Alberto keep unravelling when casting,. I tried a double uni knot for the same result, looked horrible though, I may have mis-tied it.

I don't really want to learn how to tie a FG not so I am after suggestions on what I may be doing wrong or other knots I could possibly try.

I will say that the knots seem very tight when first tied.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

TIA

[imfishn 58]

Hi Vogon, I have used the same knots as you, the Albright Knot on all my rods, both for light fishing 4lb to 15lb lines, and also for heavier surf rod up to 50lb braid and leader, and it has held up with no problem, without ever unravelling. I have found it the easiest of the knots to tie Braid to leaders, and like yourself tried the Double Uni and FG but never succeeded.

The only thing I can think of is whether you are perhaps winding/looping the leader over the Braid, rather than the Braid being wound over the leader ( I hope that makes sense ) I think I made that error once and it unravelled on me.

[doobie 5,802]

I presume vogon you're meaning line to line knots? (not to a swivel).

If line to line, which I rarely do as always to a swivel, but when I have, it is the Double Uni Knot as I find it easier and haven't had it unravel.  Mind you, this is 15lb braid to 20lb mono leader.

But as I 95% tie the leader to a swivel/hook, ( all lightweight like you), I always use the Improved Clinch Knot - only because I find it easier and never had a problem.

I have a 11' Daiwa surf rod and it is long enough to allow a lengthy leader using a swivel to main - if it does snap (rare) just easier to put a swivel on with the I/clinch knot.

What are you targeting with the 'heavy' gear?  (shark, rays?)

 

[vogon 295]

1 hour ago, doobie said:

I presume vogon you're meaning line to line knots? (not to a swivel).

Yes, its line to line knots. I use a swivel on the rare occasions I bait fish.

 

1 hour ago, doobie said:

What are you targeting with the 'heavy' gear?

Salmon mostly, hope to head west for the Elliston comp but anything that lives in the surf.

I'll throw a mix of metals & big plastics

[vogon 295]

10 hours ago, imfishn said:

The only thing I can think of is whether you are perhaps winding/looping the leader over the Braid, rather than the Braid being wound over the leader ( I hope that makes sense ) I think I made that error once and it unravelled on me.

I don't think I am doing this but will check. I've never had a knot unravel on lighter line though.

How do you put enough tension on the knots when you pull them tight?

[Softy 2,991]

Honestly the FG knot isn't that hard to tie once you get the hang of it.. 

[vogon 295]

8 hours ago, Rob62 said:

Have a try with the Yucatan knot its fairly easy to tie and quite strong

I had a look at this one & thought it may be a good option. Which loop knot do you use to get the double in the braid?

If it actually rains tomorrow I may have to stay home & practice 

[Kelvin 2,288]

If you find the FG too tricky, then the slim beauty is abit easier. I also like the Kaneit knot with 20lb to 50lb leader.

 

Reel Territory - Posts | Facebook

[Beau_H 31]

2 hours ago, Softy said:

Honestly the FG knot isn't that hard to tie once you get the hang of it.. 

100%, FG is easy as after a bit of practice and has never let me down. I find using a Rizzuto finish works better than half hitches, as its stronger, and doesn't slip as much. 

[imfishn 58]

12 hours ago, vogon said:

I don't think I am doing this but will check. I've never had a knot unravel on lighter line though.

How do you put enough tension on the knots when you pull them tight?

Hi Vogon, with the lighter line i used just hand tension, ensuring the line is wet before final tensioning. I think when i did the heavier line i just wrapped the lines around some small dowel rods 5-6 times and pulled as hard as i could. As others have said in the topic, there are probably better, stronger knots, but I learnt this one a while back and it worked fine.

[Softy 2,991]

8 hours ago, Beau_H said:

100%, FG is easy as after a bit of practice and has never let me down. I find using a Rizzuto finish works better than half hitches, as its stronger, and doesn't slip as much. 

 

I'll have to try the Rizzuto it annoys me when the tag end sometimes undoes a hitch and flaps about. never had the knot slip though.

[Soobz 559]

The main way I can imagine how the Albright can slip is the tag end of the braid is too short or not tied off. Best finish is the rizzuto, which is really similar to a uni knot, or just do several half hitches. The Albright does require a hard cinch down, as per most knots, if the braid hasn't gone a darker colour it's not tight enough. Make sure you leave long tag ends to pull on before snipping down.

I changed from FG to Albright because I had some FGs slip on some sub 12lb braid brands, plus it's so much easier to tie on a rocking kayak.

Easiest knot and pretty much slip proof is the surgeons, but it's bigger than most and not the strongest.

[MAH 449]

15 hours ago, Kelvin said:

If you find the FG too tricky, then the slim beauty is abit easier.

I don't fish much using heavy leaders and have found the slim beauty a great knot. I find the FG knot, when setting the knot, requires you to put the leader under too much strain for light line. The FG knot is completely dependent upon the braid biting into the leader material, which is why you need to put a lot of tension on the lines when setting the knot. Knots like the slim beauty, don't need to bite into the line, because you are wrapping two knots around the lines (a uni knot and variation on a clinch knot) which then are pulled up against each other and can't slide past each other (similar to using a stopper knot).

When tying the slim beauty I don't start like most videos show. In most videos, they say tie a double overhand knot leader, tighten until a figure eight forms and thread the main line through. But if you look at the resulting knot, it's just a 2 turn uni knot. So I tie a 2 turn uni knot. This video demonstrates this nicely (from 1:32 to 2:52).

[MAH 449]

15 hours ago, Kelvin said:

I also like the Kaneit knot with 20lb to 50lb leader.

This looks like a uni to uni knot to me. The first part where they tie a double overhand in the leader and thread the main line through is a uni knot. The second part where they make a loop in the main line against the leader and wrap the tag end around the leader is also a uni knot.

 

[Beau_H 31]

8 hours ago, Softy said:

 

I'll have to try the Rizzuto it annoys me when the tag end sometimes undoes a hitch and flaps about. never had the knot slip though.

haven't had that problem before mate, try watching Briggsy Fishing's video on the FG knot. That's how i learnt it and it works for lines from 5lb - 100lb+. 

[MAH 449]

On 24/05/2022 at 9:45 AM, Rob62 said:

Have a try with the Yucatan knot its fairly easy to tie and quite strong

I've practiced this knot a couple of times today and I'm very impressed.

I normally don't like line to leader knots that include a bend in the leader, because I don't like how the line goes through the guides when casting, especially micro guide. I like the tag of the leader going in the same direction as the leader. But with the Yucatan I was able to trim the leader tag super close, so it shouldn't an issue when casting.

[vogon 295]

I too practiced the Yucatan knot & am fairly confidant that I pulled the knot down really tight so will give it a test in the next couple of days. Anaconda had some cheap metals so I won't be loosing too many $ if the knot fails 

I tied a few atrocious Kaneit  knots so more practice is required.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[MAH 449]

I have some old braid and mono that I keep to practice knots with and while trying the knots mentioned in this thread, I also decided to tie a couple of line to leaders using the surgeons knot. I tied a few 3 turn and few 6 turn knots. I forgot what a good knot this is. Very quick and easy to tie, which raises the issue of repeatability. The best knot is often the knot "you" can repeatedly tie correctly. This is why the surgeons knot is such a good line to leader knot. If you can tie an overhand knot, you can tie a reliable surgeons knot.

[MIKECATTS 1,488]

Leydun Fishing Tools Gt Fg Pr Knotter Assist Line Leader Connection Knotting Machine Bobbin Winder Lines Wire Japan Knot Tool - Fishing Tools - AliExpress   

[Soobz 559]

I found this easy with thicker leader, so practice it on that before going thin

 

[MAH 449]

I keep a pair of hemostats with me when fishing to remove hooks, crimp split shot etc. They are also handy for tying knots like the blood knot. You can also use them to tie the surgeons knot for line to leader connections.

[Rybak 652]

Interesting to read that many tie leaders to the main line. So what stops line twist & kinking??. Bait & sinkers will almost always turn in the water with the current as do lures...I might be old school but always use a swivel appropriate to the type of fishing I'm doing. Just wondering ??

[Soobz 559]

Braid doesn't seem to suffer from twist like mono can. Then again I don't bait fish and the lures don't seem to spin either. I have used swivel clips on the end of the leader but noticed no improvement in anything, even in heavy surf. Maybe if you have rigs with droppers it's more needed?

[MAH 449]

54 minutes ago, Rybak said:

Interesting to read that many tie leaders to the main line. So what stops line twist & kinking??. Bait & sinkers will almost always turn in the water with the current as do lures...I might be old school but always use a swivel appropriate to the type of fishing I'm doing. Just wondering ??

Depends

Squid - mainline - leader - snap swivel - squid jig

Paddle tail soft plastic - mainline - leader - Mustad Fastach Clip - jighead or cheb rig OR if using a Texas rig I tie directly to the hook and don't use any clip

YFW - mainline - leader - bean sinker - snap swivel - hook length - hook

Garfish - mainline - leader - snap swivel - float rig

Except for YFW, I rarely bottom fish, when I do it's mainline - leader - snap swivel patenoster rig

[Rybak 652]

..I do mainline - swivel - leader....and any other attachments to the leader itself..

[Rybak 652]

...all floats are attached to the mainline before the swivel.

[MAH 449]

2 hours ago, Rybak said:

..I do mainline - swivel - leader....and any other attachments to the leader itself..

How much line do you have out when casting?

I like to cast with minimal line out, which is probably the main reason I tie the leader to the line, so I can wind it through the guides.

With float rigs and paternoster rigs I end up with quite a bit of line out, just because these rigs can be quite long; but with squid jigs, soft plastics and other lures, I would only have about 20cm of line out from the top guide.

[Yorky 313]

I'm usually using the FG knot, If I need the knot to go through the guides it's always the FG knot if it doesn't need to go through the guides I will sometimes use the double uni. 

I'm using braid pretty much for all my fishing these days & when I'm fishing from the beach/surf & hefting out lures or big baits I tie a leader long enough to go onto the spool that way it's mono on the finger & not braid when casting, this requires the FG knot as it has to go past the bail roller

Yorky

[Wert 472]

16 hours ago, Rybak said:

Interesting to read that many tie leaders to the main line. So what stops line twist & kinking??. Bait & sinkers will almost always turn in the water with the current as do lures...I might be old school but always use a swivel appropriate to the type of fishing I'm doing. Just wondering ??

Interesting indeed, for the record I too mainly go mainline to swivel with snap (not a snap swivel, i like small quality rolling swivels and snaps to suit line class), for heavy rigs no snap, uni knots and perfection loops for tidy reliable simple knots.

That said at times, ie land based lure tossing, the mainline to leader thing is the way to go and I always use a knot I accidentally invented by watching a tutorial wrong, it's basically a double double uni knot, because it's what I know and it works great.

Worth a mention too, i always snood hooks and connect lures by loop or clip, while i know many knots I reckon I'd only use 5 for all my fishing being the 4 above plus the Hawaiian dropper loop. 

Hope you all find the right knots for yourselves.

[MAH 449]

52 minutes ago, Wert said:

Interesting indeed, for the record I too mainly go mainline to swivel with snap (not a snap swivel, i like small quality rolling swivels and snaps to suit line class),

Worth a mention too, i always snood hooks and connect lures by loop or clip, while i know many knots I reckon I'd only use 5 for all my fishing being the 4 above plus the Hawaiian dropper loop.

I'm a tackle rat when it comes to swivels and snaps, with a variety of size and strength and for snaps different types of closure. I use different types of snaps not just to suit line class, but also for different lures

I consider myself pretty proficient when it comes to knots, but also only use a few knots;

• line to leader - slim beauty
• loop at end of leader - perfection loop
• loop in the line/dropper loop - surgeons knot
• loop at end of hook length - surgeons knot
• hook length to hook - snell knot
• leader to terminal tackle such as lure clip - trilene knot

These are all easy knots that I can tie with confidence.

[Rybak 652]

15 hours ago, MAH said:

How much line do you have out when casting?

I like to cast with minimal line out, which is probably the main reason I tie the leader to the line, so I can wind it through the guides.

With float rigs and paternoster rigs I end up with quite a bit of line out, just because these rigs can be quite long; but with squid jigs, soft plastics and other lures, I would only have about 20cm of line out from the top guide.

When casting, up to 1m of line out in boat or land based. Longer when surf fishing. With squid jigs, this could be 1.5 m long as I use a sinker on the bottom & up to 2/3 squid jigs on the leader. Basically never get snagged up & can just leave dangling from rod holder when the sinker hits the bottom when not working the jags when the Whiting are on the chew.